Outback Jack

Ok guys, Outback Jack here.

Now a few of you guys have converted your earlier EA-ED and XG's to an EL ecu and maybe a j3 chip tune as well.

 

Now when I first did mine, I was told to leave the timing as per Standard XG timing, which is 10 BTDC.

 

Later I was told 0 degrees or TDC as per EL ecu.

 

Now we all know that EA-ED and XG run 10BTDC and there is a TDC timing mark and a IGN mark which is 10BTDC and where you set the timing in base timing mode.

 

On an EL there is only TDC timing mark or 0 degrees BTDC which is where you set the base timing.

 

I just wanted to know from other people on here, where have you set your base timing after an EL ecu conversion?

With or without j3.

 

I am being told that EA-ED and XG are exactly the same base timing as EL.

Which is not right.

 

To my logic 0 degrees or TDC would be the Base timing required as the motors are basically the same but the ECU has been changed and thus changing the base timing to suit is required.

 

Also that by running the standard EA-ED and XG base timing of 10BTDC would mean the timing is +10 degrees through the whole timing curve as EL has a base timing of 0 or TDC.

 

Interested in what others have done and which timing is correct in this situation.

 

Cheers!

 

Jack.

 

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Just tested Orange/Black wire at ECU.
5V, so PIN 26 is still the +5V REF pin on an EL ecu, even though its not listed on the PIN OUTS for EL.
Done.

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Ok, my ute is now running an EL XR6 ecu and stage 2 j3 chip tune, going well.
I am currently installing Tech Edge Wideband O2 and Controller.

Just checking for VREF voltage on the EL ecu pinouts. On EB/ED it is PIN 26- +5V REF but on EL PIN is listed as not in use.
This +5V REF is used by the MAP sensor and the TPS, so it is needed.
Will let you know how I go.

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Go the seats at that price it's good.
3 angle cut on the valve seats is worth the money, makes for a much better flow in and out of the chamber.

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Just emailed Jason Bolger from t.i. performance and asked if when the EL ecu is j3 chipped will it throw a 511 code?

Its completely Normal with a j3 chip fitted.

Happy Days!

Thought I'd fried the ECU. Phew!

Problem solved.

Oh and BIG thanks to Jason from t.i. performance for his awesome service, he has helped me through by answering any questions I had, and even when it wasn't his j3 chip at fault, it was ECU related he still offered advice and support.

That's earns his sticker a place on my ute.

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That's the big question Ando.
I think I might pop the ED ecu back in and lower the fuel pressure, at least I know it's safe, then I can grab another EL ecu when I go see my mate and test it with my code reader before purchasing.

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OK, after going over the whole ute, I found the problem.
I was wondering why the EL XR6 ecu wouldn't go into diagnostic mode properly or raise the idle when I bridged the pins for timing.

When I was cleaning the EL XR6 ecu up, I used a brass wire brush to clean the pins in the top of the ecu.
Now I didn't notice at the time as the wires are tiny, but some had broken off the brush and got stuck in the top around the pins, making little bridges between some pins. Must of been the TPS input and something else.
After spending all day on it, was the last thing I checked after putting the ED ecu in to bridge connections and check the timing. That worked OK, so I knew something was up.

I was about to put the EL ecu back in, when I saw what I thought was a few lil hairs or something in the connector.
Turns out it was the brass wires that had snapped off and got lodged in there.
Few were touching between 2 pins.
I cleaned it all out, plugged the ECU in.....
Straight to 700rpm idle.
Put code reader on, flicked switch to ON, revs rise as they should.
Bridge the connectors to do base timing, works perfect.
DOH!

I may not have escaped unscathed though.......
I ran the Code reader in KOEO and most codes I got were for things the XG doesn't have-
Cooling fan fault codes
791,792,777,778.
Serial link to dash fault
783
BBM fault
795

But the one that is worrying me is.
511-Internal EEC module fault- Replace.

The ute idles fine, seems to drive OK.
It could be a fault it had before I got it or maybe I have damaged it.
I tried to clear the codes, but it keeps coming up.
So I may be up for a new ECU...

Lesson learnt, no brass wire brushes near electronics...




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That might be you clue right there Jack, sounds like you're into something

 

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Yeah, not sure Gerg. The TPS in XH and XG should be the same, but his was an XH XR6 and not sure if they run a BBM or not.

Jason at t.i. performance seems to think it's a vaccum leak. I will check the PCV valve this morning, it's the only thing I haven't checked.

It's not the j3 chip, I have the problem on EL ecu with no chip inserted.

 

It's just strange, I even put my hand in the throttle body to restrict airflow and it still idled at 1000-1100rpm. It's like the ECU is making the high idle thru the ISC, like it can't find a reference point so it idles up.

I will find the problem today.

 

If it's not a vaccum leak, then it's got to be a TPS problem which is either it not being able to calibrate to the TPS because of no goose test/calibration or TPS values differ on actual TPS.

Just a matter of checking all possibilities.

 

Last thing, that I'm hoping it's not, is a dud ECU. That would suck, cause it cost me $105 and had to come from QLD.

But it is a possibility.

 

Just having a Cuppa, then back at it...

Again....

 

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Are you trying to set it up with locked timing or ecu control? If el uses timing as well as the isc to control idle then that might be giving you problems

Nah mate, I got rid of the locked timing and went back to ecu control when I had the ED ecu in.
You know its funny you mentioned an XH TPS might be needed, because the guy who sold me the EL XR6 ecu had it in an XH XR6, and reakoned it ran great.

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It could be, I'm not in the position to say for sure as I never played with auto stuff back then, I do remember that a couple of people I knew that turned auto cars to 5 speed cars had all kinds of fuckey issues like that but I don't really remember the solution

Hey Thom, I thought I would start with the small stuff and work up.
I tried to get it to idle lower with j3 chip in or without. No difference.
So I then stripped everything off the intake manifold, checked/replaced every hose. Checked everywhere for leaks.

Tested and fitted an air charge sensor, cleaned the throttle body and the ISC.
Changed the TPS and ISC.
Checked all the wiring and Earths.
Reassembled and torqued to spec.
Set the base idle to 500-550 with idle speed controller disconnected.
Tried EL ecu alone, then EL ecu with j3.
Multiple times.
It's doing exactly the same as it was in the first place. Idling at 1000-1100rpm.
No change.

I have been on it all day and got nowhere.

Will have another try tomorrow and if no go, lower the fuel pressure and put the ED ecu back in.
So much for plug and play EL ecu....

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I know this might be a dumb question, but could the ECU be for an auto? My EF did this exact thing when I swapped the manual into it, and the only bush mechanic way I knew how to fix it (without splashing out $500 on a manual ECU), was to install an adjustable stop bolt in the ISC that limited how far it could open.

I believe the ECU hangs the rpm up with autos to mask the downshift back into 1st or 2nd or also to mask the engagement of the over-run clutch, whatever it's for, it's a thing.... Does that sound right Thom?

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There's no dumb questions Gerg.
It is in a 6TAC ecu casing, which should be an EL XR6 ecu. Even if it didn't work on the ecu if it was auto, with the j3 the tune over rides the ecu and the tune is manual 5spd.
So I'm kind of lost....it maybe a fault in the ecu or as Thom said TPS related.
If I could just get it to goose the throttle, I'm sure the ecu could get the values right.
I bridged the pins on the left of the diagnostic port to try and put it in base timing mode, and it's not having a bar of it.
That could be because the idle is too high/ no TPS calibration or there's a fault with the ECU.

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Cheers@Thom , It's giving me the shits. Lol. I had the EL XR6 ecu on her, fuel pressure is adjusted to 300kpa at WOT.
I've tried doing the base timing a dozen times.
I will just keep fault finding, seems to be the same high idle issue with j3 chip in or out.
I had the tune done specifically for an XG running an EL ecu and a LOG manifold.
I have a spare TPS here, to try but I might have to look into this problem a bit more. Going to look for leaks and stuff, if none, will put ED ecu back in and see if she idles fine.
It's kind of doing my head in, and I burnt my forearms from continually trying to adjust the base idle.
Having a break now, before I bend something....

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I did get it to idle at around 780rpm for awhile but put the ecu into diagnostic mode with code reader and after turning it off and restarting the ute out of diagnostic mode, it returns to idle at 1000-1100rpm.
Can't seem to perform a goose test and if I jump the two left pins to get into base timing mode it doesn't seem to work.
Back at it again.....


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Idle Speed Controller tested- 10ohm resistance.
Power with key 'ON' to Idle Speed Controller tested- 12V.

So ISC checks out OK and ECU is supplying power to it.

Next....

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Hey Guys, I have put an EL ecu into my XG and everything seems fine except it is idling at about 1100rpm, sometimes it will drop to 700-750rpm but if you stab the throttle it settles at 1100rpm again.

 

I ran my code reader on it and are getting codes

121-Throttle Position Sensor out of Calibration range.

 

Also throwing

411/412- Idle Speed Control Low/High idle fail.

 

It seems to me I need to calibrate the TPS for the ecu, but unsure how and think this maybe causing the low/high ISC fault.

 

I am going to check for any vaccum leaks, idle is quite nice and I have adjusted idle already.

Going to try a few things, but if anyone has a fix for this, please let me know.

Will be handy knowledge to have on site too.

 

Cheers Fellas.

 

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Good stuff Wokko, glad it came good for you. Base timing is 10 degrees BTDC. So you may have it a bit retarded.
You should notice a difference again from changing that.
So happy for ya mate .
I love it when a plan comes together!

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Hey Jason, 

EL XR6 manual ecu on the way. 6TAC

I just ordered one of your Stage 2 j3 chips to suit and provided all the details of my ride.

One thing I'm not clear on. Do I set the base timing to 0 degrees/TDC as per the EL XR6 ecu going into the XG or set it to 10BTDC as per normal ED/XG ecu when the j3 is installed?

 

Thanks in Advance.

Jason.

 

How you going with it@wokko , success yet?

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Try this oil mate. It lasts ages and is fully synthetic, been running it a couple of years now.

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Just check your not 180 degrees out mate, its easy to accidently set it up on the exhaust stroke.

I would pop the rocker cover off, make sure No1 is on compression stroke and both rockers should be up. If its on exhaust stroke the exhaust rocker on the left will be down.

Then check your dizzy is the right spot and see if the timing marks line up, bet they don't. I bet the proper timing mark on the balancer will be pointing at about 5minutes past 12. Which is where top dead centre is on an XG.

 

 

Actually, I think I know what they have done, the front pulley is XG as it runs V belts not serpentine belts like EF/EL.

 

Try this before you do anything, and I bet it works. Put the timing with the timing light at 12 o'clock which is roughly on an XG where 10 degrees advanced is.

 

Just make sure you look on that lower pulley for a slot that is on the inside edge, that's where an XG timing mark on the balancer is. maybe not the one they marked white.

 

I'm on the right track now.

 

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No problem mate. I was in the garage tinkering anyway.
As long as you got the dizzy in right at TDC and everything lines up, then do the timing with it in diagnostic mode to 10 degrees BTDC or 15mm to the left as you look at your timing mark,it should run.
Then after you take it out of diagnostic mode the ECU will do the rest.

Just don't forget to hook up that PCV valve on the front top of the rocker cover to the throttle body hose. It's bugging me.
OCD. Lol.


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No probs mate.

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OK your ecu is for a 93 XG auto ute.

That's OK. Now we know.

 

The base timing for EF/EL is 0 degrees or TDC. On XG base timing is 10 degrees BTDC which you have no timing mark for because some Muppet forgot to change the timing covers over.

What you need really is a timing light that can advance degrees, if you got one or got a mate who's got one, grab it.

Then all you do is get the timing marks lined up, then wind in 10 degrees advance on the timing light, and move the dizzy till the timing marks match up again.

 

With a normal timing light its a bit harder, but not impossible. The XG's 10 degree advanced mark is 15mm to the left of TDC as you look at the motor.

Now assuming the crank pulleys are the same, make a mark 15mm to the left of your timing marker on the cover and that should be 10 degrees BTDC.

 

Later you could look for an EL auto ecu and just time it straight up from the normal marker but because your ute has no smartlock it would need a j3 chip to run it.

 

I would just stick with what you have and make a new timing mark on the timing cover with a white marker.

 

That should get you running.

 

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Yeah, thought the timing marker was wrong. Take off the passenger side kick panel off, the ecu is there. There's a code on the back of the ecu, you have to take the mounting bracket off and turn it around. Then there's a short code starts with a number then three letters.
Look up catch codes for ford 4L ecus or ask me here.
If its an ED/XG ecu and an EL timing cover you may have to do a lil improvising but I can help. It could be a later motor as the code on the front is 95DA which sounds like EF/EL, hence the single timing mark which would be TDC.

Also I see your PCV valve hose is not connected, it should be on a hose running to the throttle body.
Let me know how you go, I'm in my shed fixing my window winder.

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This roughly where the dizzy should be...


And this is normal XG timing marks as viewed from above....


Hope that helps.

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