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Outback Jack

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Posts posted by Outback Jack

  1. Posted

    Unless you are thinking of boost, (a decent amount at that) the stock xg bottom end will be fine, most e series bottom ends are the same other than el hybrid have au size mains and the au long rod and ea has slightly beefier rods than other e series
    Cheers Thom, is there a stock piston I could use on the XG rods and bottom end to boost compression or just go after market slugs?
    I'm pretty sure when head was off XG pistons had valve reliefs and a dished top.
    Sorry to bug you mate, just might as well get it right.
    :)
    Thanks for your help.

    Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

  2. Posted

    Hey@Thom ,

    Mate I may have to do a rebuild on an XG short motor I have in my spare ute or do the one up in the Red ute, as getting a bit of blow by and loss of power at mid-high revs in Big Red.
    What's the best bang for the buck bottom end I can put together, I want to up the compression with better pistons.
    But your the man to ask about combos that work.
    Am I OK using the XG bottom end or should I go a different combo as a base to start with.
    Much appreciate your input mate.
    Cheers.

    Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

  3. Posted

    It probably isn’t mate. It’s been about 18 months and, even though I haven’t run it, I’ve taken a while to get to this point. default_smile.png So I would suggest Warantee run out


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Well maybe you should of mention motor has been sitting for 1 1/2 years.

    So I take it you never spun up the oil pump through the dizzy hole to lube the cam and get oil pressure BEFORE you tried to run it?

    I'll leave you with it.....


    Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

  4. Posted

    Why aren't you just returning it to the 'professional' guys who built it?
    Seems silly to be pulling apart a motor that's under warranty.

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  6. Posted

    It’s done this since I got it back. Free up, lock up, free up etc etc


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    There's something seriously wrong mate.
    Either the cam is seized or there is something like too long pushrods etc.
    Don't fark with it, take it to the muppets that rebuilt it and get them to fix it.
    If you mess with it too much you will void your warranty.


    Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

  8. Posted


    Will do, will report back with an update


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Use some WD40 on the threads to loosen the filter up a bit, they get pretty dusty under there.
    Mine was being a gutless pig awhile back, ended up being blocked/dirty fuel filter.

    Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

  11. Posted

    Cheers for the input. I've gone for a mix of nolathane and WASP and will keep original control arms. I will most likely get them sandblasted but not sure whether to powder coat or paint? Whats the best coating for this application?
    Paint mate, powdercoat chips and gets moisture under it.
    Just sand them back and hit them with some matt black kill rust or similar.

    Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

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  13. Posted

    Rightio,
    Just did a comparison look at the Spark MBT tables between the stock EL XR6 tune and my Custom j3 tune.

    Standard EL XR6 ecu timing at 600rpm is 14btdc and at 900rpm is 15.5btdc.

    Custom j3 tune timing at 600rpm is 15btdc and at 900rpm is 16.5btdc.

    So with Stock EL XR6 ecu and no chip at idle it has to be about 14.5-15btdc.
    With j3 chip I would expect around 15.5-16btdc at idle.

    So will see what shows up at 10btdc base timing and Obtdc or TDC base timing when at idle.

    Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk


    Ok, was just in the garage tinkering.

    Now first up let's get this 100% correct.

    When replacing the ecu in an EA-ED+XG with an EL ecu, the CORRECT timing is TDC or 0 degrees.
    With or without j3, it is a FACT.
    End of story.

    You can see this easily by looking at the timing at idle.
    If you left your timing at 10btdc as per EA-ED+XG and put the EL ecu in, with or without j3 chip, you are running 10 degrees too advanced through the entire rev range.

    If you have a digital timing light you will see the idle timing is around 30btdc.
    It should be in the 15-20btdc range.

    I searched high and low for this answer and it was right in front of me.
    Don't let anyone tell you otherwise and if you want to safely run your motor on EA-ED+XG with an EL ecu.

    TDC as base timing.

    Thanks to my Equus digital tach advance timing light for confirming my theory.









    Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

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  16. Posted

    Rightio,
    Just did a comparison look at the Spark MBT tables between the stock EL XR6 tune and my Custom j3 tune.

    Standard EL XR6 ecu timing at 600rpm is 14btdc and at 900rpm is 15.5btdc.

    Custom j3 tune timing at 600rpm is 15btdc and at 900rpm is 16.5btdc.

    So with Stock EL XR6 ecu and no chip at idle it has to be about 14.5-15btdc.
    With j3 chip I would expect around 15.5-16btdc at idle.

    So will see what shows up at 10btdc base timing and Obtdc or TDC base timing when at idle.

    Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

  17. Posted

    I agree with Bear mate, didn't think fuel pump would run when running on gas.
    Is it running rich, blowing a bit of black smoke when you rev it?
    Could be a few things. XG's can be a bit hard to diagnose, but keep at it and I'll see if I can help along the way.

    Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

  18. Posted

    Ok, I had a look at the spark maps in the.bin file for ED/XG or 3DAC and at 600rpm it is at 14BTDC.
    I had a look in the .bin file for EL XR6 or 6TAC and at 600rpm it is at 14BTDC.

    So logically at around idle of 700-750rpm the timing should be around 15-18BTDC max.

    I have a digital timing light, so I can idle the ute with base timing set at 10btdc, which it is now...and if the idle timing is around 15-18btdc, then it's all good.

    If it is higher by roughly 10 degrees or around 22-30btdc , then the base timing is wrong and needs to be set at TDC.

    The EL ecu wants to see TDC as its base timing. It ASSUMES this is correct.

    The timing is controlled off the ecu, BUT only from the reference point of the base timing. So it can't actually see what the base timing is, it can only add and subtract from the initial or base timing based on all its inputs.

    See the problem is EL models have a knock sensor and the ecu will pull timing if detonation is detected.
    EA-ED and XG don't have a knock sensor so the base timing is CRITICAL., when running an EL ecu.

    I checked the j3 tune and they get around this by limiting timing to 50btdc.
    The EL stock tune pulls timing gradually depending on knock input.

    I'm pretty sure tomorrow I will find it is TDC that is the correct way to set timing on EA-ED and XG running an EL ecu.

    I am dissapointed that so called tuning experts....
    1. Don't know base timing on EA-ED+XG is 10btdc and that EL base timing of TDC ,IS different.....by 10 degrees.

    2. That running 10 degrees too advanced on an EA-ED+XG while running an EL ecu is dangerous, due to there being no knock sensor to pull timing due to detonation.
    If the limiting for timing is 50btdc......then add 10 degrees to that and your at 60btdc before timing is retarded.

    Food for thought.

    Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

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  19. Posted

    Ran the XG ute 110km today at 10BTDC base timing with Stock EL XR6 ecu.
    Fuel consumption was pretty average but performed ok. 1/3 tank to 150km mostly highway.
    AFR was around 14-14.5. at 110km/hr.

    Just wondering if I should set it at TDC- 0degrees and see how she goes.
    Just before I change sensors etc and use the stock EL XR6 ecu as a base line for testing.



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    gerg reacted to this

  21. Posted

    [mention=1138]Outback Jack[/mention], do you have access to an EL harmonic balancer?   Is it possible, they're marked differently?

    - ie, an EL balancer TDC mark, is actually the same as an ED/XG balancer 10degrees mark?

     

    Could it also be, that the computer pulls out timing differently?

     

     

    Yeah Dave EL harmonic balancer is different. Mark is off to the Right to line up with marker off to right for TDC marker on EL timing cover. But TDC is TDC regardless of where the markers are. I just helped a guy awhile back where someone had put an EL timing cover on an ED or XG motor and he couldn't get it running. Still had an ED/XG balancer, so it was a bit of a head fark. Lol

    I told him the 10BTDC mark or IGN on the motor was roughly at 12 o'clock, and he sorted it from there.

    But lining the ED/XG balancer mark up with an EL timing cover makes it horribly retarded.

     

    I just wanted to know if it was supposed to be 10BTDC or TDC on my XG motor with EL ecu so when I get to tuning I know if I'm advanced running 10BTDC base timing or that's spot on.

    If it is supposed to be at TDC or 0degrees, then I would be 10 degrees advanced and have to take that into account when tuning.

    Don't worry I have been asking this question for a month at t.i. performance and can't get a straight answer.

    First time I asked it was keep XG 10BTDC.

    Next time I asked it was TDC like EL.

    Then it was ' as long as it doesn't ping'.

    Then.....

    They reakon the base timing of EA-ED and EL are exactly the same.

     

    Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

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  22. Posted

    Hey Jack, you have an aftermarket cam in it yeah? Then the answer to the timing question is.... "whatever the engine wants"
     
    The cam events dictate how efficient the cylinder filling is, and this directly affects where the optimal ignition timing should be set. The more cam you give it, the later in the rpm range the peak cylinder filling (ie: torque) will occur, which is also where the most timing should be pulled out relative to the basic rpm ramp.
     
    So in short, a bigger cam will take more initial and less total timing. If there's a way of breaking into the J3 and doing this (I have zero experience with them) that would put you on the right path I think.
     
     
    Edit: in extra short, a different cam means you should throw the stock timing out the window.
    Sent from my CPH1920 using Tapatalk
     
     
     
     
    Yeah Gerg, I have a 222825 crow cam in her., mild Stage one cam.
    It seems happy enough at 10BTDC.
    I was just hoping to get the base timing to stock, so I have a good reference point for tuning.
    I just didn't want to have too much timing wound in and have the ecu fighting the timing. I also have no knock sensor being XG, so didn't want to be detonating and not know it, my exhaust is pretty loud so hard to hear pinging. Lol

    I can play with spark timing with the j3 but I'm a bit away from that just yet.
    Still learning how everything works.
    The knock table on the j3 is set all over to 50, but the EL XR6 stock tune pulls it gradually and ends up at 50.

    I like it set at 10BTDC but it's what the ECU wants I am more interested in.


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  24. Posted

    I'm not sure what's going on with my ute.
    For an experiment I pulled the j3 chip and just ran the EL XR6 ecu.
    Tried it with stock 10BTDC of XG and ran good.
    Tried with 0 degrees or TDC of EL and was a lil more hesitant and ran a lil warmer, but still OK.
    Have set back to 10BTDC and going to take it for a longer drive and see how it goes.
    I'm trying to see if it will go into Lean cruise mode but so far not much luck.

    Trial and error at this point. AFRs are staying in the 14's at cruise, so not leaning out or running rich.


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  25. Posted

    This could be interesting Jas.

    Now i have to go backwards on a au race and run a ea ecu with a el dizzy, so this would in a sense be drama, will i end up with or not in ur knowledge?

    Cheers Jason

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    EA run TFI dizzy, EL run TFI dizzy, so that's ok. EA ecu will want base timing of 10BTDC regardless of motor, but I'm not familiar with AU motor. I take it they only have a 0 degree or TDC timing mark.
    In that case, get a piece of string, go around the crank. Take string and measure length.
    Then divide Length by 36
    This will give you the distance of ten degrees of timing.
    Put white mark that distance to right of original timing mark on balancer and when in base timing mode, line the new mark on balancer with original TDC marker and you will be at 10BTDC.

    I have a digital timing light which is even easier. Increase timing on light to 10 degrees advanced and mark spot on the motor, then return light to 0 and align new mark with original crank marker.Done.

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