Bearing noise??

[wagoon 2,429]

Ok so about 5-6 weeks ago I replaced the water pump and fan clutch on my wagon. I got the water pump (believe it was a gmb brand) from my local parts place along with 2 new gates belts. The old fan clutch had seized causing the fan to lock and when traveling at highway speed(which I do everyday) the belts would start to slip, so I drove slower so the belts would not slip but had to drive like that for about a week and the belts did slip a few times. After replacing the water pump, fan clutch and belts I went for a 10 minute drive come home and retensioned the belts. The belts started slipping again so I added belt grip and retensioned the belts again. About 3-4 days after applying the belt grip and retensioning the belts for the third time this metallic scraping type noise started from the front of the engine http://vid1289.photobucket.com/albums/b507/wagoon1/20150124_090014_zpsl0irrftt.mp4

The metallic noise speeds up in the vid because I revved the engine a couple of hundred rpm, if I rev it more the noise gets drowned out by the noise of the engine.

The noise is only there when the car is cold. I took the vid this morning, I warmed the car up to 100 degrees F(could still hear the noise as I left home) then drove 6km's to my local post office and the noise had gone. The noise is gradually getting louder over time but the actual noise has not changed at all in the time I could hear it. My guess was either the belts are to tight when cold and loosen as the belts warm up or the belt grip has got into maybe the alternator and stuffed something but that doesn't explain why the noise goes away when warm. I don't want to loosen the belts though as the belts slip now when I rev out the engine and change gears(manual gearbox) I can't tell what rpm as I don't have a tach but it happens changing 2nd-3rd @80km/h and 3rd-4th @100ishkm/h

 

 

[ando76 4,354]

Bit hard but I reckon the alternator is the issue.  I'd say the bearing is rooted.  Chuck another alternator on there and see if it goes away. 

[wagoon 2,429]

Yeah thought I was a tough one but it gives me a place to start. Can I refurb my pulleys as they are very shiny due to the excessive belt slip when the fan clutch seized?

[ando76 4,354]

No real need to touch the pulleys.  It's probably the bearing in the alternator saying enough.  excessive belt tension can cause as much damage as too light.  It also pulls hard on the front main bearing if you go to over board.

[wagoon 2,429]

Ok fair enough. The belt on the alternator is not a tight as the one on the power steering which is still not that tight. Power steering belt moves just over half the thickness of the belt when pressed in the middle with one finger, alternator belt moves just over 1 belt thickness when pressed between the alternator and crank pulley. Will change the alternator and see what happens.

[Outback Jack 6,352]

Heya Wagoon, spray some WD40 into the alternator (try not to get any on the belts/pulleys) , if the noise stops, it's ya alternator bearing.

I've had it sometimes where it's noisy, and a spray of WD40 gets rid of the crap and it's OK, other times it just doesn't help.

Belt on alternator sounds too loose as well, deflection should be about 15-20mm

Jack.

[wagoon 2,429]

Thanks jack forgot about doing that. I was nervous trying to make the belt tighter but will take the belt off spray the alternator and try and retension the belt. I have a bit of a bad habit of overtightening things so I try and not go to hard.

[Flatchat 4]

Pull your water pump off mate and check to make sure the blades arnt chopping into the outer sleeve of no.1 bore, I've seen it happen before

[wagoon 2,429]

Yesterday I removed the belt and gave the alternator a free spin and applied some WD. I then put the belt back on and retentioned it a little bit tighter than before. Started the car and the noise was not there, then after about 2-3 minutes at idle the noise returned. Went for a drive and I could not hear the noise after a 10 minute drive, but did try some hard acceleration and the belts did not slip at all so that's a win.  So today I will start the car again then I will spray WD on the alternator while the car is running to 100% confirm it is the alternator.

[ando76 4,354]

Ok so that eliminates the water pump causing the issue - cause it went away with the spray of wd on the alternator.  I think you will find that the alternator is a little dry and perhaps the bearing is not so happy. 

[wagoon 2,429]

So why would the sound go away when the car is at running temp?

[Outback Jack 6,352]

I've had the same thing Wagoon, the bearings just do whatever they want once they get a bit of slop in them. LOL

WD40 will show ya what the problem is, but isn't the best lube for bearings.

Maybe when the metals expand it makes it less noticable.

 

You may be able to get a bearing kit and just replace the bearings in the alternator, especially if the alternator is still working well.

 

Happy Australia Day!

 

Jack.

[ando76 4,354]

the spray may have helped move some crap - then it might have moved some crap back in there - but then you took it for a drive and it flung the shit out. 

 

If it had of been the water pump the noise would not have gone away.  Weird things those electricity things - cant be trusted.

[Flatchat 4]

Doesn't sound like a bearing noise at all, sounds like something is rubbing/hitting somewhere

[Flatchat 4]

Are any of fan blades behind the alternator pulley bent and rubbing the alternator body

[ando76 4,354]

yeah I've had that when I put the wrong spacer in behind the fan and it made a very similar noise.  Mind you I have flogged the alternator to 6500 and pulled the fins around as well.

[wagoon 2,429]

I pulled the alternator off and was going to put another one on, well learnt today that the spare xf one I have is different which requires mounting bracket to be changed. As the xf bracket requires removal of the lower water pump bolt I didnt bother. So I inspected the one that was on the car. None of the fins are damaged or bent but when I grabbed the pulley and gave it a wriggle there was some play. If the alternator was on the car rocking the pulley from around 12 - 6 oclock it didnt move to much but when wriggling from 2 -8 oclock it moved a fair bit more. In comparison the spare xf one had zero movement. So I liberally applied WD, mounted it back on the car tensioned the belts and started the car for the first time today. The "scraping" noise was gone replaced by more of a whirring noise which was much quieter than the scraping noise.

Im thinking now I will cut the cast xf bracket to suit just the alternator as I dont have ac so shouldnt need the mount that goes around to the bottom of the water pump. I will then get the one on the car now recoed as it actually stamped as a 60A.

[Outback Jack 6,352]

Nice wagoon, At least ya know where the problem is, like I said if you want to save some money and you have a bearing puller, whip those bearings out, down to a bearing shop, get em sized and replaced, easy.

Sounds like someone has at some stage had too much tension on the belt, or just age mate 2-8 oclock would be roughly the angle of tension on the pulley, so it wears the bearing in that one spot.

 

Jack.

[ando76 4,354]

Don't cut up that cast A/C and alt mount.  they are awesome mounts and the bolt that picks up behind the water pump stops them from flexing and throwing belts. 

[wagoon 2,429]

Dont know anything about the history of the car and going by the rust repairs I would say your on the mark Jack. Dont have a bearing puller but once its off the car I will have a look and I might be able to work something out.

 

As I was typing about cutting I knew you would say that Ando. Just nervous about removing the bolt as the pump isnt leaking and I hate taking stuff apart that is fine. Will have to wait till the weekend now to give the sealant enough time to dry. If the mount is that good I should probably save it for my roller although the pulley on the balancer is further forward on the roller.