SPArKy_Dave

INFO COPIED, PASTED AND LOGGED - FOR ARCHIVAL PURPOSES I look forward to your post.

INFO COPIED, PASTED AND LOGGED - FOR ARCHIVAL PURPOSES MAP faults: Looking back on my notes, the simple answer is it uses the 60kPa curve. After just running a test on one on the bench it's a bit more complicated, because it seems to only handle one fault mode at a time, and you can easily end up with a throttle position error instead, which gives a different curve. I wouldn't recommend relying on the fault mode curve, and it'd only be the same as locking it to 60kPa anyhow. At 5000rpm it goes to 38 deg at all pressures. I've managed to get an EST running in the car with an Arduino microcontroller doing the timing. I added a knob that I could manually advance/retard the timing map, and found it remarkably insensitive to it, so ended up shelving it for a while. I'm about to shave the head and give it a cam, so will revisit it with the higher compression to see if fiddling the timing will make more of a difference then. I have some more info on interfacing to the circuit that I'll see about posting up soon.

INFO COPIED, PASTED AND LOGGED - FOR ARCHIVAL PURPOSES anyonw have a MAP for the 3.3? or even just know the total advance off the top of there head?

INFO COPIED, PASTED AND LOGGED - FOR ARCHIVAL PURPOSES When MAP fault is logged, it ignores the MAP sensor, and gives a basic curve that advances up to 33 degrees. Do you have this curve? Will a disconnected (from the ECU) MAP sensor cause the fault? At 5000rpm, advance jumps to 38 degrees (rev limiting?) At all pressures? I'm looking to go to a custom timing map…by replacing the microcontroller in the EST. This would be good.

INFO COPIED, PASTED AND LOGGED - FOR ARCHIVAL PURPOSES subscribe!

INFO COPIED, PASTED AND LOGGED - FOR ARCHIVAL PURPOSES This is great... rep awarded! 8)

INFO COPIED, PASTED AND LOGGED - FOR ARCHIVAL PURPOSES thought this might be helpful withe making sense of in in the real world kPa Vac 0 29.5 5 28.1 10 26.6 15 25.1 20 23.6 25 22.1 30 20.7 35 19.2 40 17.7 45 16.2 50 14.8 55 13.3 60 11.8 65 10.3 70 8.9 75 7.4 80 5.9 85 4.4 90 3.0 95 1.5 100 0.0

INFO COPIED, PASTED AND LOGGED - FOR ARCHIVAL PURPOSES It seems that EST has some more tricks up its sleeve than I thought. Doing some logs on the road I discovered that it is giving some extra advance when cold, as slydog thought. Below 35C, it gives an extra 6 or 7 degrees of advance, but not all the time - which is why I didn't pick it up on the test rig. It seems to only give the extra advance while the MAP and/or RPM is increasing - doesn't give it for constant parameters - also generally more likely above 60kPa. The effect tapers out until after around 50C where it follows the main map. It may be some compromise between advancing up when cold for performance, but retarding back to heat the cat when it doesn't think its being loaded.

INFO COPIED, PASTED AND LOGGED - FOR ARCHIVAL PURPOSES That stock map is pretty anemic! Plenty of torque to be gained by tweaking the spark there. That 2nd map looks a lot better. Jason

INFO COPIED, PASTED AND LOGGED - FOR ARCHIVAL PURPOSES Or a comparison between the 2, Ive assumed a MAP range of 20-100kpa for WES's map, which im pretty sure is incorrect...

INFO COPIED, PASTED AND LOGGED - FOR ARCHIVAL PURPOSES And the Table...

INFO COPIED, PASTED AND LOGGED - FOR ARCHIVAL PURPOSES Here it is for guys without megatune

INFO COPIED, PASTED AND LOGGED - FOR ARCHIVAL PURPOSES Here's the map we used on Wes's XF. http://home.exetel.c...rting SPARK.vex You can load it into megatune or put it into your graphic program. If you look at the numbers the RPM is the horizontal scale, subtract the translation and multiply by the scale to get the actual timing.

INFO COPIED, PASTED AND LOGGED - FOR ARCHIVAL PURPOSES Thats a great bit of work there Mate, Really appreciate you going to that effort and putting up the Data, Will be really interesting to see what the 3.3 ecu timing map looks like. This will make things very easy for the guys who want to setup a base map in megasquirt or any other ECU I just made it a sticky

INFO COPIED, PASTED AND LOGGED - FOR ARCHIVAL PURPOSES Awesome work bro..PM your address and I'll send them EST's if I still have em.. Slydog

INFO COPIED, PASTED AND LOGGED - FOR ARCHIVAL PURPOSES I was expecting more effect from the temp sensor too. It seems mainly about defeating the idle retard that normally happens on closed throttle. My understanding is that higher temperatures give faster combustion and hence do better with some retarding across the range. The flatness of the map below 1700RPM surprises me. I'm suspicious of how all the activity seems to happen just around 2000RPM, and I'm suspecting that it may have been tailored to suit the autos, which tend to sit around that rev range in normal running. If I come across a manual EST somewhere local I can borrow, I'll be interested to see what differences there are. Regardless, I'm looking to go to a custom timing map, either megasquirt or by replacing the microcontroller in the EST. I've only got the 4.1 Auto module, so basically any of the others would be of interest to confirm just what the differences are. My main interest at the moment would be to see what they do different in the manuals, though there is also some interest around in the differences for the 3.3 in terms of running on gas. I don't know what the temperature issue was with that EST module. I can only speculate that it was the retarding for low RPM, or perhaps it was advancing it too much at that temp at higher RPM - though you'd probably hear the pinging if that were the case. Anyhow, here's a plot of the advance curve If anyone should happen to want all the gory details of the data, here's a file with detailed data: XF 4.1L Auto EST Timing Map Data http://www.2pi.info/auto/timing_est_41_auto_scan.txt

INFO COPIED, PASTED AND LOGGED - FOR ARCHIVAL PURPOSES I made an error in the above, with the wrong scaling in the advance angle. My calculations had a spark every 180 degrees of crank angle, not every 120 degrees, as there is with a 6 cyl. Here's a new table. This time the base timing of 10 degrees is also included. Temp: 90.0; Thottle Open; AC off kPa RPM 750 1000 1250 1500 1750 2000 2250 2500 3000 3500 100 | 10 10 10 10 10 13 15 17 20 20 90 | 10 14 14 16 18 21 22 22 20 20 85 | 16 19 19 19 20 24 24 23 21 20 80 | 20 20 20 20 21 26 27 25 24 22 70 | 20 20 20 20 24 29 30 30 29 28 60 | 20 20 20 20 24 29 31 33 33 33 50 | 20 20 21 21 26 31 33 34 35 35 40 | 20 20 20 22 26 30 33 33 35 35 30 | 20 20 20 22 27 30 32 33 35 35 25 | 20 20 20 22 26 30 32 33 35 35 24 | 10 10 11 15 21 26 31 33 35 35 20 | 10 10 11 15 21 26 31 33 35 35 At 5000rpm, advance jumps to 38 degrees (rev limiting?) The dwell varies with battery voltage, and is around 5ms Now, the effect of the other sensors: Throttle Position: With the TPS closed (throttle closed), timing below 2000RPM is retarded to the same curve as for pressures below 25kPa. ie, at idle reverts to base timing. A disconnected TPS flags an error, but otherwise operation is as normal. Temperature Idle timing varies between 60C and 80C Below 60C, for <80kPa <1250RPM advance goes to 20 degrees regardless of TPS. If the sensor is disconnected, an error is logged, and operates as per warm engine Air Conditioner: Advances low RPM. Specific amount varies with temperature. If temp <=60 C, then for map < 70kpa, and <1300RPM set advance=40 degrees As temp increases, pressure threshold and rpm threshold decreases Above 80, for <=1000RPM, <60kPa, set 30 degrees advance Start: When starter engaged, reverts to base timing around 50 crank degrees of dwell 250 34ms, 500 15ms, 750 10ms

INFO COPIED, PASTED AND LOGGED - FOR ARCHIVAL PURPOSES. Strange that engine temp does not affect the performance,as soon as mine got to operating temp it went backwards,but when under 1/4 or so it went so much better.Mine use to run a 3.3 man EST and only a 515-520 lth and 215-220 dur or so cam. A electronic dizzy fixed all it's problems. Good work so far and goodluck... Slydog

INFO COPIED, PASTED AND LOGGED - FOR ARCHIVAL PURPOSES. looks fairly routine. 48-55 is around the max we see in factory ecu's on cruise and high rpm decel.

INFO COPIED, PASTED AND LOGGED - FOR ARCHIVAL PURPOSES. I've set up a microcontroller board to interface the EST module (4.1 Auto) to my PC, and have started calculating some timing maps from it. This is the basic one. It doesn't include the 10 degrees of base timing, so that is in addition to what is in this table, ie it advances up to 48 degrees BTDC at 3000RPM, 50kPa. EDIT: this table is wrong. See fixed one below. Temp: 100.0; AC Off; Throttle Open; Advance above base timing MAP(kPA) RPM 500 800 1000 1500 2000 2500 3000 3500 4000 100 0.3 0.1 0.3 0.0 3.7 10.9 14.0 15.2 15.0 90 0.7 0.5 5.6 8.7 15.5 16.4 15.0 15.0 15.2 80 15.4 15.3 15.5 15.1 23.1 23.0 20.5 18.3 18.2 70 15.4 15.2 15.5 15.5 27.8 29.9 28.2 26.7 26.8 60 15.5 15.3 15.5 15.4 28.5 33.8 33.7 33.8 33.7 50 15.5 15.3 15.5 16.5 31.7 36.6 37.6 37.8 37.7 40 15.4 15.3 15.5 18.3 30.6 34.8 37.5 37.5 37.6 30 15.5 15.3 15.5 18.3 30.6 34.8 37.6 37.5 37.7 20 0.3 0.2 0.4 8.1 23.9 34.7 37.6 37.7 37.7 10 0.3 0.1 0.3 8.0 23.9 34.8 37.6 37.5 37.5 Changing temperature seems only to affect the idle, returning to 15 degrees at all pressures under 80kPa when below 1500rpm and under 70 C. AC seems only to have an affect in the cold running mode, and then advancing it up even more at idle RPM low pressure. I'm still having troubles with the EST module detecting sensor faults - mainly with the throttle position. It looks like it identifies infeasible TPS, MAP and RPM combinations, and logs a fault, either with TPS or with MAP. When MAP fault is logged, it ignores the MAP sensor, and gives a basic curve that advances up to 33 degrees. I haven't yet worked out what effect the TPS has on the timing. Anyone have any hints on what are sensible manifold pressures for throttle closed across the range of RPM? Does this table look right?