Outback Jack

That dizzy looks roughly in the right spot, but that timing pointer is weird, its not XG.

Can you take a pic of the whole motor mate? Something's not right here.

I posted some pics in the other post you made of where the dizzy should be and the timing marks.

 

See, that arrow could be Top Dead Centre or 10 degrees BTDC, only way to tell is run it with marks lining up, see how she runs, if it runs like a pig try it set up 20mm to the left as you look at it, and see how it runs then.

It's just weird there is only one timing mark. Usually you have to look down between that idler arm pulley bracket to see an XG's timing marks, not off to the side.

Where that hose is running across the top of that bracket is usually what you look thru to see timing marks.

 @Thom , have you ever seen this timing pointer set up on an XG? Should be IGN and TDC marker.

Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here mate, this may help.

That shows the position everything should be in.

And timing markers.....

From this....

 

Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mate, I just scoured my workshop manuals and nowhere mentions a part no for them.
I would just get the old bearings and head into a good bearing shop and size them up. Either that or ask for a price and part no from Repco or somewhere. @Mr Polson .

Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

I like them mounted close to the dizzy in the engine bay but people mount them under the dash or in the glovebox too.

Just make sure wherever you mount it that the port for plugging in your laptop is easily accessible.

Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

No worries mate. I will check in tomorrow, see how your going.

Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

There should be two separate markers for timing on the front cover the one on the right is Top Dead Centre and the one on the left with IGN marked on it is the one you want to set it to, that is 10 degrees BTDC.

If there is only one marker, that is unusual.

 

The TFI module on the bottom of the dizzy should be on about a 45 degree angle looking from the front.

Hope that helps. That's roughly the right position.

 

I would double check the dizzy is in the right spot. If its on the exhaust stroke and not the compression stroke, dizzy will be 180degrees out.

 

Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

 

 

You need to bridge the two pins on the left hand side of the diagnostic port to set the timing.
That puts it into diagnostic mode.
Then set to 10 degrees advanced or where the timing mark says IGN, that is 10degrees BTDC.
If you don't bridge those wires you won't get the timing right.

Before you do that....

Make sure you have the motor set up on the compression stroke on Top Dead Centre then Number one on the dizzy cap should be if your looking from front of motor, towards you and over towards the motor side.

Firing order is 153624.

Best of luck mate.

Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

+1 on the Pavtek heads.

Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

Sorry I'm in the wrong direction. I love my clevos and the Guys in Bunbury are top blokes, really know their stuff.
Best of Luck.

Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

Have you got the sock filter on the end of the pump? Was there one there before you changed the pump?
The real fuel filter under the ute on the passenger side under the side window is the one you changed?
If no, change fuel filter.

If yes to all that....
There is a little joiner for the fuel pump that goes to the hard-line inside the tank, like a plastic donut. Piss that off and put a piece of efi fuel line there and hose clamps. They don't seal well after all the years.
Then check you haven't accidentally knocked off a vaccum line under the bonnet. Shake the PCV valve and make sure its working.

If all that is good, I will help you find the problem mate.
Another XG owner here.



Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

Good luck with the build mate. I hope you get it all sorted.
I'm 4-5hrs South of Perth, so hear you on getting stuff you need done locally.
I know a few people into old Fords and Mechanics, myself included.
Mate has a workshop in Bunbury and knows good painters etc, they specialise in Fords and love the older stuff.

Not sure if that's any help, I don't know which direction your 6 hours away from Perth in.

Best of Luck mate.

Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

Hey Wokko,
Yeah noisy pump could be pump on the way out or lost the filter sock on the end and sucked up crap. Could even still be fuel filter blocked and pump trying to push past it.
Think your on the right track.
Let me know how you go mate.


Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

Might be the pump or something connected to it.
Fuel pump relay- green one near brake booster on drivers side.
Test with a multimeter. Should be 60ohm give or take 10%.
If its not, replace it.
Open up your hatch in the back of the ute, get the fuel pump wiring, should be a plastic plug, unplug it, run multimeter across the fuel pump wires.
Should be less than 10ohm resistance.
If not replace pump.

Could also be a blocked fuel filter but try those two things first.

Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

Great write up Sparky, should definitely be a sticky. Top stuff!

Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

Thom,
I was also running a 3" elbow, 3" stainless pipe and a K&N pod filter tucked behind the passenger headlight,which at the time seemed like a good idea.
I realise now all I am doing is sucking hot air from the engine bay.
Also have the feeling I have lost a lot of intake velocity by using it.

The Outback runs a cyclonic barrel type air cleaner in an enclosure that has a scoop at the front of the bonnet to drag cool air in.
I was going to make a modified pipe to fit inside this enclosure to run the K&N pod filter, so it drew cold air from outside, looked stock and had good flow.

I am still going to use the Original Outback air filter enclosure but have taken the plastic cover off the standard air filter as it covers 1/2 the surface area of it.
The pod filter has half the surface area of the now modified standard filter.
K&N Pod filter height- 13cm. Average outside diameter- 45cm.
585cm surface area.

Outback Ryco filter height- 28cm. Average
outside diameter- 43cm.
1204cm surface area.

So I think with paper being more restrictive than the pod filter, the ryco will still perform as well, if not better with better protection from dust particles.

Time to fit it all up.....

Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

Thank you Sir,
As always you are a wealth of 4L knowledge.
I may play with j3 chip tuning later, but for now I think the EL Xr6 tune should suit my needs.

Maybe Santa will bring me a j3 tuning package for Christmas....ho ho ho....

Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

The tune will be fine without a bbm hooked up and below 3800rpm it should be the same as a non bbm tune, having an el ecu will let you fit a knock sensor if you desire to. As far as I remember (granted it was 10 years ago last time I played with fuel pressure) a base 4.0 tune has a 45psi fuel pressure reg and an xr6 has a 55psi fuel pressure reg set at idle with the vacuum source disconnected

Thanks Thom, your a legend.
Can't wait to see how she goes with EL XR6 ecu.

I didn't realise you had to disconnect the vaccum to set the idle rate on an adjustable fuel reg. My bad.
Last time I did it on my stock 4L I think I set it at 29psi, (200kpa) but had vaccum hose connected at idle.....Doh!
Do I just block off the vac tube whilst setting the reg?
Thanks for your help mate.




Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

Hey@Thom,
I am giving the Outback a bit of a Birthday and wanted your input please mate.
My motor is stock bottom end.
Head is 94AB with stock beehive springs and has 3 angle valve seat cut.
Shaved 60 thou.
Cam is Crow 222825. .489 lift.(stage 1).
MLS-R 1.3mm head gasket.
3" intake and K&N pod filter.
Log manifold.
Extractors into hi flow 2 1/2" exhaust.
Will be running iPR adjustable fuel reg.
Mantic ER2 Stage 1 clutch.
Manual 5spd with 3.45 hydratrak.
Running a stock 3DAC ecu.
Locked timing at 36 degrees BTDC.

I have an EL Xr6 6TAC ecu coming for her, should suit my set up.
I know I have to change base timing to 0 BTDC if I want to run ECU spark control, so that's cool.

I was wondering on two things, running the EL ecu with a Log manifold instead of BBM , what to expect....
And also the correct fuel pressure at idle to suit the EL XR6 tune.....

Thanks mate,

Outback Jack.

Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

I have been doing some research into the EL ecu change into my XG and I'm just wondering how well it will go with no BBM manifold. I would like to keep my Log one.

If I understand correctly the BBM has long runners for torque under 3,800rpm then switches a vaccum butterfly/solenoid to bypass the long runners and make the route to the head shorter for more top end.
I'm just wondering if it will be OK with the Log Manifold and not cause any problems.

My second concern is the ECU I purchased is an EL XR6 manual 3.45. 6TAC ecu, which suits my Outback specs nicely.
I will have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator fitted by the time the ECU gets here but am unsure where I should set the pressure for the XR6 ecu.
On my standard 4L the fuel pressure regulator is a 250kpa unit but pressure at idle is 200kpa, which is where I set the regulator at. I hope that's correct.

Now I am aware of 2 regulator sizes for EL. One is 275kpa(standard) and other is 300kpa(XR6), but I am unsure as to what the idle pressures are for these.
Would anyone please know the at idle specs. The adjustable reg should do the rest.

Thanks, Outback Jack.




Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

Thing is, before I put all this running gear in my ea, it ran perfectly, in the eb xr6 it was in now its in my ea, it's rich as, like 40 litres to do 20 ks,

 

Sent from my ATU-L22 using Tapatalk

 

Yeah something's not right there Revhead. That's a shitload of fuel your going through. O2 sensor OK? ECU will richen up the mix if it detects a lean condition with the O2 sensor. Could be a few things, even fuel reg pressure or faulty map sensor.

Also could be the coolant temp sensor, if it reads too cool, will put car in like an ECU controlled choke mode, which also Richens up the mix.

 

Did you try running the EB's ecu in the EA? That's a straight swap, both run 10degrees BTDC base timing.

 

 

Best of luck mate.

 

Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

The way I interpreted it is that you need the J3 to remove feature the EL computer runs that you don’t need on earlier cars. But hey, I don’t own an E series, so I clearly interpreted that wrong. 
Yes I read the information correctly. 
 

[mention=70]revhead[/mention] I believe if you buy the chip and tuner as a package they send you a blank chip to write your own tune. 
 
Mine came with the tune loaded to suit the engine specs I had given. Obviously they can’t get it 100% without having it on a dyno or a way to log the AFRs. 

The only thing that will happen is the EL ecu will throw error codes on the code reader for the things not connected at worst, but there is nothing that should affect the way the ECU performs or throw it into Limp Home Mode.

The j3 will stop it throwing error codes for things not needed by switching them off, that is all.
But the j3 is a good tuning tool for modified engines and to get nice fuel maps etc.

I will redo the base timing when I get my EL XR6 ecu and see how it goes, but I bet it runs sweet.
XH and EL ECUs are very similar.
My mate has an XH ecu in an XG and that goes fine and was just chucked in.

He runs locked timing at 30 degrees+ but because of the base timing being set up for the XG ecu at 10 degrees btdc, it is actually now 40 degrees+ advanced using the XH ecu.

This explains why he can only run 98 premium and cant wind in any more timing or it pings it's arse off.


Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

I bought a j3 chip n programme for my EA, cost me $400, after I fitted it to my el ecu, it started n I can drive it, however when I msg ti performance, they said chip was sent with no tune, wtf did I pay for, I msgd them a Jason bolger emailed me back, I explained what had happened, he basically told me I need to buy a tune n download it myself, ffs

I couldn't make head nor tales of his emails actually,

 

Sent from my ATU-L22 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

Hey Revhead,

Maybe try that base timing trick with your EA mate. You are probably running at 10 degrees advance without knowing it. If there is no tune on the j3 then your just running off the standard EL ecu.

Follow the steps I listed above and see if it runs and idles a bit nicer.

 

 

Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

That's no good Revhead.

I thought the tune came loaded on the j3 ready to roll.

 

Anyway I think I have the answer to my base timing question.

Base timing for EA-ED or XG is 10 degrees BTDC.

Base timing for EL is 0 degrees or TDC.

 

If you are putting an EL ecu into an EA-ED or XG you need to:

 

1. Get the engine to operating temp.

 

2. Connect a timing light and put the original EA-ED or XG ecu into diagnostic mode with bridging wire.

 

3. Set the base timing to TDC or 0 degrees instead of the normal 10 degrees BTDC base timing.

 

4. Stop engine, unplug diagnostic mode bridging wire.

Connect new EL ecu.

 

5. Start engine and should run spot on.

 

Don't know why that info is not on the t.i. performance site with the upgrade info . Otherwise your running at 10 degrees advanced on the EL ecu.

 

Thanks to Thom, Ozy mechanic and me for figuring it out.

 

4L SOHC rule!

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

Yeah I can see you needing to get a j3 chip for an XF crossy conversion to EL ecu but ED to EL is just a faster processor and a few extras like thermo fans etc.

You have to pin out for the BBM separately, which I don't need. Its not active unless you wire it up.

 

I have already read all the t.I.performance stuff and if basically says EL ecu is plug and play with no j3 into EA-ED and XG.

My question was more to do with base timing and making sure that is correct and affect of locked timing on the EL ecu.

 

Later I will get a j3 but I got a 6TAC coming which is an XR6 EL ecu, so I want to run that tune first and see if it matches my cam, head shave and 3 angle valve job. Should be close.

 

Did you read the info from t.i.performance properly Panko?

Think you will find it states j3 is optional.

 

 

Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

Hi Guys
Was looking for an answer to a question about the above upgrade.
I have an XG manual Outback running a 3DAC ED ecu which I want to upgrade to a 6TAC EL XR6 manual ecu.
Now I know I might have to tweak the fuel pressure a bit to suit the xr6 tune but that should be it as I have a mild cam that should suit the tune.
Apparently its just plug and play.
 
The question I have is EA-ED and XG have 10 degrees BTDC base timing and as far as I know EL have base timing at 0 degrees or TDC.
 
So do I change the timing on my motor to match ecu or does it stay the same?
 
Also, if I have locked timing at 30 degrees BTDC, do I have to change that setting?
 
Is there anything else to change or watch out for? I am rocking a clutch fan and log manifold, so should be no need for pin out changes/wires for thermos or bbm.
 
Cheers fellas,
 
Outback Jack.
 
Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk