Outback Jack

Hey@Thom , Think I have found my combo mate. Tell me what you think. Silvolite High Comp Pistons (5cc dish) to suit EA-EL with valve relief cut. Hasting Rings. ACL race series Main bearings and Big end bearings. JP Oil Pump. (Std or High flow) I have a choice of Standard or High flow oil pump, not sure which to go for and the Big end bearings also come in standard or extra oil. I take it the high flow pump goes with the extra oil Big End bearings or Standard pump and Standard bearings. Cheers mate, Jack. Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

Thanks mate. I will start looking around at aftermarket pistons. I'm hoping to find some with less dish or a flat top with valve reliefs cut in. Just two more questions. The bores when the head was off looked pretty good. The head had never been off from factory and bores where bang on standard for every cylinder when built at Ford. If I just re-ring it and hone the bores with new pistons, should I just go standard size rings or go one size up to 0.50mm? The piston size stays the same I take it. The only bit that concerns me is the big end bearings and connecting rod bearings. It's been a long time since I have done any of this, and if I replace them I want to do it right, so looks like I need some plasti-guage. Trying to get all the stuff I need and info before I start. Thanks mate. Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

Cheers Thom, is there a stock piston I could use on the XG rods and bottom end to boost compression or just go after market slugs? I'm pretty sure when head was off XG pistons had valve reliefs and a dished top. Sorry to bug you mate, just might as well get it right. Thanks for your help. Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

Hey@Thom , Mate I may have to do a rebuild on an XG short motor I have in my spare ute or do the one up in the Red ute, as getting a bit of blow by and loss of power at mid-high revs in Big Red. What's the best bang for the buck bottom end I can put together, I want to up the compression with better pistons. But your the man to ask about combos that work. Am I OK using the XG bottom end or should I go a different combo as a base to start with. Much appreciate your input mate. Cheers. Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

Well maybe you should of mention motor has been sitting for 1 1/2 years. So I take it you never spun up the oil pump through the dizzy hole to lube the cam and get oil pressure BEFORE you tried to run it? I'll leave you with it..... Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

Why aren't you just returning it to the 'professional' guys who built it? Seems silly to be pulling apart a motor that's under warranty. Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

Starter is already off Thom. Whatever it is it's internal. Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

There's something seriously wrong mate. Either the cam is seized or there is something like too long pushrods etc. Don't fark with it, take it to the muppets that rebuilt it and get them to fix it. If you mess with it too much you will void your warranty. Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

Hey Steve, did you have it running properly at some stage? Or had it done this since you got it back? Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

Use some WD40 on the threads to loosen the filter up a bit, they get pretty dusty under there. Mine was being a gutless pig awhile back, ended up being blocked/dirty fuel filter. Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

Fuel filter, under ute, passenger side, just behind the door. Change that and see how you go. Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

Ok guys, Outback Jack here. Now a few of you guys have converted your earlier EA-ED and XG's to an EL ecu and maybe a j3 chip tune as well. Now when I first did mine, I was told to leave the timing as per Standard XG timing, which is 10 BTDC. Later I was told 0 degrees or TDC as per EL ecu. Now we all know that EA-ED and XG run 10BTDC and there is a TDC timing mark and a IGN mark which is 10BTDC and where you set the timing in base timing mode. On an EL there is only TDC timing mark or 0 degrees BTDC which is where you set the base timing. I just wanted to know from other people on here, where have you set your base timing after an EL ecu conversion? With or without j3. I am being told that EA-ED and XG are exactly the same base timing as EL. Which is not right. To my logic 0 degrees or TDC would be the Base timing required as the motors are basically the same but the ECU has been changed and thus changing the base timing to suit is required. Also that by running the standard EA-ED and XG base timing of 10BTDC would mean the timing is +10 degrees through the whole timing curve as EL has a base timing of 0 or TDC. Interested in what others have done and which timing is correct in this situation. Cheers! Jack. Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

Here@Panko , all you need to know in one place. Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

Paint mate, powdercoat chips and gets moisture under it. Just sand them back and hit them with some matt black kill rust or similar. Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

Oh, don't forget to do fuel filter....often small overlooked things like that. Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

Ok, was just in the garage tinkering. Now first up let's get this 100% correct. When replacing the ecu in an EA-ED+XG with an EL ecu, the CORRECT timing is TDC or 0 degrees. With or without j3, it is a FACT. End of story. You can see this easily by looking at the timing at idle. If you left your timing at 10btdc as per EA-ED+XG and put the EL ecu in, with or without j3 chip, you are running 10 degrees too advanced through the entire rev range. If you have a digital timing light you will see the idle timing is around 30btdc. It should be in the 15-20btdc range. I searched high and low for this answer and it was right in front of me. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise and if you want to safely run your motor on EA-ED+XG with an EL ecu. TDC as base timing. Thanks to my Equus digital tach advance timing light for confirming my theory. Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

Ok mate, that's a good start and not too expensive. Fuel pump sounds like it needed doing anyway. Let me know how it goes after that. Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

Dunno dean I don't run gas on mine. Just seemed strange. But its running shit both ways so must be flow, fuel, air or electronics. Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

Rightio, Just did a comparison look at the Spark MBT tables between the stock EL XR6 tune and my Custom j3 tune. Standard EL XR6 ecu timing at 600rpm is 14btdc and at 900rpm is 15.5btdc. Custom j3 tune timing at 600rpm is 15btdc and at 900rpm is 16.5btdc. So with Stock EL XR6 ecu and no chip at idle it has to be about 14.5-15btdc. With j3 chip I would expect around 15.5-16btdc at idle. So will see what shows up at 10btdc base timing and Obtdc or TDC base timing when at idle. Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

I agree with Bear mate, didn't think fuel pump would run when running on gas. Is it running rich, blowing a bit of black smoke when you rev it? Could be a few things. XG's can be a bit hard to diagnose, but keep at it and I'll see if I can help along the way. Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

Ok, I had a look at the spark maps in the.bin file for ED/XG or 3DAC and at 600rpm it is at 14BTDC. I had a look in the .bin file for EL XR6 or 6TAC and at 600rpm it is at 14BTDC. So logically at around idle of 700-750rpm the timing should be around 15-18BTDC max. I have a digital timing light, so I can idle the ute with base timing set at 10btdc, which it is now...and if the idle timing is around 15-18btdc, then it's all good. If it is higher by roughly 10 degrees or around 22-30btdc , then the base timing is wrong and needs to be set at TDC. The EL ecu wants to see TDC as its base timing. It ASSUMES this is correct. The timing is controlled off the ecu, BUT only from the reference point of the base timing. So it can't actually see what the base timing is, it can only add and subtract from the initial or base timing based on all its inputs. See the problem is EL models have a knock sensor and the ecu will pull timing if detonation is detected. EA-ED and XG don't have a knock sensor so the base timing is CRITICAL., when running an EL ecu. I checked the j3 tune and they get around this by limiting timing to 50btdc. The EL stock tune pulls timing gradually depending on knock input. I'm pretty sure tomorrow I will find it is TDC that is the correct way to set timing on EA-ED and XG running an EL ecu. I am dissapointed that so called tuning experts.... 1. Don't know base timing on EA-ED+XG is 10btdc and that EL base timing of TDC ,IS different.....by 10 degrees. 2. That running 10 degrees too advanced on an EA-ED+XG while running an EL ecu is dangerous, due to there being no knock sensor to pull timing due to detonation. If the limiting for timing is 50btdc......then add 10 degrees to that and your at 60btdc before timing is retarded. Food for thought. Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

Ran the XG ute 110km today at 10BTDC base timing with Stock EL XR6 ecu. Fuel consumption was pretty average but performed ok. 1/3 tank to 150km mostly highway. AFR was around 14-14.5. at 110km/hr. Just wondering if I should set it at TDC- 0degrees and see how she goes. Just before I change sensors etc and use the stock EL XR6 ecu as a base line for testing. Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

I use WASP, made in Taiwan, good quality. Road safe do good parts as well. Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

Yeah Dave EL harmonic balancer is different. Mark is off to the Right to line up with marker off to right for TDC marker on EL timing cover. But TDC is TDC regardless of where the markers are. I just helped a guy awhile back where someone had put an EL timing cover on an ED or XG motor and he couldn't get it running. Still had an ED/XG balancer, so it was a bit of a head fark. LolI told him the 10BTDC mark or IGN on the motor was roughly at 12 o'clock, and he sorted it from there. But lining the ED/XG balancer mark up with an EL timing cover makes it horribly retarded. I just wanted to know if it was supposed to be 10BTDC or TDC on my XG motor with EL ecu so when I get to tuning I know if I'm advanced running 10BTDC base timing or that's spot on. If it is supposed to be at TDC or 0degrees, then I would be 10 degrees advanced and have to take that into account when tuning. Don't worry I have been asking this question for a month at t.i. performance and can't get a straight answer. First time I asked it was keep XG 10BTDC. Next time I asked it was TDC like EL. Then it was ' as long as it doesn't ping'. Then..... They reakon the base timing of EA-ED and EL are exactly the same. Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

Yeah Gerg, I have a 222825 crow cam in her., mild Stage one cam. It seems happy enough at 10BTDC. I was just hoping to get the base timing to stock, so I have a good reference point for tuning. I just didn't want to have too much timing wound in and have the ecu fighting the timing. I also have no knock sensor being XG, so didn't want to be detonating and not know it, my exhaust is pretty loud so hard to hear pinging. Lol I can play with spark timing with the j3 but I'm a bit away from that just yet. Still learning how everything works. The knock table on the j3 is set all over to 50, but the EL XR6 stock tune pulls it gradually and ends up at 50. I like it set at 10BTDC but it's what the ECU wants I am more interested in. Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk