How do I adjust camber?

[Mr Polson 10,214]

Okay, so I'm yet to actually have anyone wheel align my ute properly.

 

I can visually see the camber on the front wheels (it looks like a damn V8 Supercar!!).

 

So I want to have a go at adjusting mine, myself. How do you adjust it? Its a XF.

[ILIED 316]

Where the LCA mounts to the body, there's an eccentric bolt/washer.

Undo the nut, then turn the bolt head so the arm moves inwards.

Don't jack the car up to do it. Make sure the wheels are straight.

When you think it's correct, take the car for a drive, then check again.

Make sure you drive to the position the car is in to do it, not lowered from a jack or on ramps etc

[dizzy616 183]

i usually get the wheel alignment mob to do it straight after i stuff around with those suspension parts. usually easier to get to the shop than to stuff around trying to get those parts right without the equipment. 
usually when it feels right its still not right

[Mr Polson 10,214]

That'll be fun to get to leaving it on the ground...

Its lowered 2.5" haha.

 

Dizzy, I've been to four different places now, and none of them have adjusted the camber correctly yet.

[dizzy616 183]

thats a pain dude. got to hate it when professionals cant get the job done right. hmm need to find someone with a 4 post hoist. 

apparently camber gives you street rep these days haha. so you'd have heaps of rep

[Mr Polson 10,214]

I'd rather have my tyres last than get street rep

[ILIED 316]

It's much better with a fourposter.

[gregaust 319]

Adjusting camber though will alter the toe - in also

[Mr Polson 10,214]

Didn't think of that...

I think I know how to alter the toe though.

[gerg 10,871]

Adjusting camber though will alter the toe - in also

Yep! First thing I thought of too. As you move the lower control arm in or out in relation to the chassis, the length of the tie rods must be adjusted accordingly. I like to take a basic toe measurement from a part of the tyre tread that stays the same all round the tyre and measure to the other side. Compare front measurement to back. Go with a couple of mm toe-in and take the car for a drive. Make some minor adjustments and get the steering wheel centered.

 

You can tell which way your wheels need to go by hitting a pothole or sharp bump on one side. This causes that wheel to momentarily skip off the ground and thus have no influence on the direction of steering. If the wheels are excessively toed-in, the opposite wheel that still touches the ground will cause the nose to dart slightly toward the bump. If there is too much toe-out, the nose will dart away from it.

 

One final check is to apply the brakes firmly and let go of the wheel (save for maybe a fingertip on it to feel what's happening). If the wheel stays straight then your toe adjustment is ok. If it squirms or wanders under brakes, it's toeing out too much. This can be caused by floppy/worn bushes that distort under braking force. A bit more toe-in can compensate, but it's a compromise.

 

If you car is heavily lowered, the geometry may be such that the camber goes negative even with the adjustment all the way in. On older X-series Falcons, the top arm likes to be about level with the ground, at rest. Anything under or over this angle and the geometry is a bit screwy.

 

Example: my XE has stiff-as front springs that are also pretty high, and manual steering. With the 6 cyl motor, it was terrible and heavy especially on turns, and needed bullshit castor to get any kind of feel in the steering. It also had horrible bump-steer. But with the V8 installed, it actually feels quite nice to drive, as the front sits at least half an inch lower. It actually got lighter! Still going to lower it and install power steer though.

[Mr Polson 10,214]

Steering geometry is complicated :/

 

2.5" count as heavily lowered? Haha.

 

Mines a 6cyl XF with manual steering. I remember it being lighter and easier to drive when I lowered it.

 

Is there any way to allow them to get camber back if you lower them too much? I'm sure I've heard of camber correction kits for if you "run out" of camber.

 

Doesn't hitting a pothole or sharp bump throw out your wheel alignment?

 

I have negative camber - I think - top of wheel leaning inward. If I adjust it, to bring the bottom in/top out, will that cause toe out?

[gerg 10,871]

Yeah 2-1/2 inches is decent... It probably got lighter because of the camber. As you lower it, the top arm goes past horizontal and starts to tip the top ball joint inwards, giving neg camber. I'll bet it rides in ruts on the road like a mongrel!

 

As ILIED says, the eccentric on the lower arm pivot is where you adjust. You can tell by looking at it if it's in all the way or not. At neutral camber, the bolt should be sitting at the bottom of the eccentric washer. Neg camber, bolt moves outwards towards wheel, moves arm with it. Pos camber, bolt moves in towards sump.

 

Yeah steering geometry is a bit of a headfuck but it's mostly in the terminology where you get lost. I've learnt the basics from my trade but taught myself by driving old clunkers and getting a feel for the adjustments. That and I'm a tightarse and won't pay some pimply-faced apprentice who only knows how to replace a strut and adjust toe-in to mess with my car and set it up exactly how I don't want it.

 

X-Falcons are great for adjustability, as just about all aspects can be changed. But like a Holley carb, this allows you more freedom to fuck it up. They go out of whack when you hit big bumps too. Mid-corner potholes are a classic, which tend to put a sideways shock load on your camber adjustment and throw it way out.

 

When hitting bumps to check my toe-in, I don't hit big ones... I like a bit of mechanical sympathy.

 

 

The camber correction kits you're referring to might actually be for E-series Falcs, as they have much less adjustability. They normally use shims in the top arm mounts to get the camber/castor adjustment and the bottom arm is fixed. The better kit eliminates the shim setup and uses an eccentric on each pivot to give wider, easier adjustment. As far as I know, X-Falcons don't have an upper arm kit, but you might be able to shim yours to get your neg camber back out to reasonable, that's if you've run out of adjustment at the bottom arm.

 

Sorry for ranting, just need to explain it properly.

[Mr Polson 10,214]

Yeah, it does tend to follow the road a lot. Not nessasairly a bad thing. Unless I want to go the other way.

 

The eccentric is the funny bolt that's offset to one side yeah? Going to be a right pain to get to with no hoist and the car on the ground... Friend has a pit in his shed, may have to borrow that.

 

So if I adjust the camber and fiddle with the toe, tighten it all up and go for a drive I should be able to get it semi decent? Camber I should be able to get right almost by looks? As in, right now you look at the wheel and see it leaning in.

 

Toe will be more difficult, doesn't take much for that to be thrown out (going by how bad it was when I replaced tie rod ends).

 

All good, when stuff is properly explained, I feel as though I get a better understanding!

[gerg 10,871]

No need for expensive gear mate, just a set of ramps and a couple of spanners. Yeah your eyesight is more reliable than what you give it credit for. A spirit level helps if you mount it on the wheel too. Checking tyre wear patterns is a good indicator after a bit of driving.

 

Don't worry, toe is easy too, you just need a tape measure. Measure your wheel track across the front between the wheels, then across the back. The difference is your toe-in/out.

 

Getting camber right means that the direction is not too affected by potholes, bumps, etc. It should load up in corners nicely without ripping the wheel out of your hands, and wear evenly for the kind of driving you do. Too much neg camber means it might lose steering feel in straight ahead position but it will tramline like a bitch. Those Hondas you see slammed on the ground with 5 degrees of camber would be a nightmare to drive, and dangerous. Fashion slaves indeed. Must have shares in the tyre company they use too.

 

If you want I can explain castor too. That's mainly the one that gives you steering feel and returns the steering back to centre.

[Mr Polson 10,214]

Tyre wear is how I noticed my negative camber in the first place.

 

So toe in is when the front of the tyre are closer together than the back? And toe out is the opposite?

 

Yeah may as well explain castor too, then I'll know the whole deal

[steve mcqueen 1,796]

 

Dizzy, I've been to four different places now, and none of them have adjusted the camber correctly yet.

 

So your saying those 4 different places couldn't do a correct wheel alignment on your falcon and is still wearing out your front tyres?

 

That's an awesome claim, 1 place I could understand but 4?

Man there sounds like some dodgy mechanics down your way.

Did you ever go back and complain?

 

I had a dodgy wheel alignment done years ago and I took it back and they did it again for free and apoligised (I don't think it was done the first time tho)

 

This is your safety and others safety your messin with by trying to fix it yourself.

I hear your frustration if your claims are true but for the sum of $45 to $65 for a proper wheel alignment I think is cheap insurance, don't you?

[gerg 10,871]

Yep, toe-in is there to allow for deflection under brakes. It's also for high speed stability. Try driving at freeway speeds with a bit of toe-out... You'll never keep the thing straight. Funnily enough, toe-out is dialed in on some race cars to give a more snappy turn-in to corners, at the expense of straight-line stability.

 

Ok caster: Here we go....

If you look at a shopping trolley wheel, its contact point with the ground is always behind the pivot point. This ensures that the wheel always follows where the trolley goes. The thing with trolleys is that all four wheels can pivot, meaning all four wheels follow what the trolley is doing. If you fixed the back wheels in the straight ahead position, then you have the trolley wanting to move straight ahead, the same setup as a car.

 

Any object wants to move in a straight line, not a circle, so the front wheels that are on a pivot tend to constantly straighten themselves out from a turn.

 

Caster on a car is achieved using specific mounting points for the pivot, In the case of a falcon, it's in the ball joints. If you looked sideways at the wheel and could see the balljoints as well, and drew a line through both of them to the ground, you'd see that the tyre contact patch sits slightly behind it, meaning the wheels will try and return to the straight ahead position when driving. Increasing caster increases steering effort but gives better steering "feel". Power steering needs more caster than manual to have any kind of feel.

 

On an X-Falcon, this is done by bringing the bottom ball joint forward, using the adjustable radius rod, sometimes called a "caster rod" (the diagonal one facing forward), winding one nut out and the other in. They're either side of the radius rod bushes ("donuts"), which have a habit of becoming spongy over time and you lose steering response as a result. Nolathane bushes fix that a lot, but are a bit more harsh with road noise.

 

Anything else I can crap on about?

[ILIED 316]

Toe-out is awesome.

Best mate had an Escort, we put 2mm toe-out on it, among other mods. The thing was twitchy as fuck, but fuck my dog it went well. You could have the thing sideways at 120kilos and there was no panic.

But yeah, she took some concentration on straights