XF AU Windsor conversion

[motoSycho 690]

@fotz any updates?

[fotz 20]

Hi All

 

Just an update, sorry have been very busy and had a few things on so I havent done any work on the car :(

 

Diff:

I have an EF XR6 (3.45 ratio) diff there ready to go. I was able to get the brake lines from the EFT as well. So when ready I will try to fit this to the car somehow. Handbrake cable, I will worry about this later, but thinking of getting one custom made.

 

Tailshaft:

Have tracked an EF XR6 tailshaft - Auto. Well see if this fits ok :)

 

Gearbox:

I have gone with the CRS bellhousing. I have a 5cyl T5 from an EL, and CRS have confirmed this will bolt up fine.

With the E-series, in comparison to a 4.0L motor, the Windsor is mounted more forward in the engine bay - hence why the v8 box in the eseries has a longer input shaft.

In the X series, the windsor mounts in the same spot as the 4.1 crossflow, which is why the bellhousing CRS has works. If I had a v8 box with the longer input shaft (from e-series), I am going to run into problems fitting it, with any bell housing in the XF. I would need to look at getting the input shaft shortened to match the 6cyl. Similarly, using the bellhousing from the e-series would also run into problems.

 

Clutch\Flywheel

I am planning to use Malwood for this. Also looking at doing the hydraulic clutch upgrade they offer, which I mentioned in my earlier post. This is a pretty cool setup. I will need to remove the pedal box to fit it. Needs a bit of trimming to get it to work, but very small change.

 

Wiring Harness:

CRS modified the AU harness for me, and its ready to fit to the car, so I just need to time to hook it all up :)

 

Fuel Tank:

I have an EFI tank ready to fit. Just need to update the pump and run a new fuel line. I will use the existing line for the return, and remove the existing return line.

 

Extractors:

Have sourced AU Extractors from an Xr8 ute that were barely used. I think this is a good start. Theyll probably need to be modified, but I really cant find something on the market that is guaranteed to fit. I think if I went with GT40 heads id be ok, but because I have GT40P heads, the extractors ill be harder to come by.

 

So my right now, my next plan is to:

1) Mount new tank

2) Install new pump

3) install flywheel, clutch and bellhousing on motor

4) Drop in motor

5) Install harness and ECU

6) J3 Chip

7) Extractors...

8) Test start it and see how it goes. If I get it working ok, then Ill do gearbox and diff next.

 

Will keep you all posted. Plannning to start working on it again soon!

 

Thanks for everones advice / guidance so far :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fotz 20]

Hi All

 

Just wanted to provide an update. Have been very busy and haven’t spent any good time on this. Since my last update, below is what I have achieved:

 

Fuel / Pump:

EFI tank has been installed. I have removed the existing return line and have made a new hard line 5/16” and installed it. Have also replaced all the hoses with EFI rated hoses, installed a fuel filter and pretty much ready to hook up to the engine. I also have upgraded the pump to a Bosch GENUINE BOSCH MOTORSPORT 023 INTERNAL FUEL PUMP 0580254023. Pretty much slotted straight in.

 

Clutch / Flywheel:

Malwood has provided me with a heavy duty clutch/ flywheel / sandwich plate and spigot bearing etc. Also got myself the hydraulic pedal conversion as well, so really excited about that one.

 

So right now I’ve just been prepping the engine and engine bay - and getting close to drop this in. Changing the rear welsh plug and also rear main seal and then I’ll put the flywheel and clutch on. 
 

I’ve been looking at the wiring and just checking everything off. Something I haven’t really figured out yet is the alternator. It’s a 3 pin alternator on the motor, does anyone have any advice on how to hook this up in the XF. I have the 3 pin connector it only has 2 wires on it.

 

Currently the XF has 

B+
D+
+
D-

 

The alternator on the Windsor has absolutely no markings. I assume the main connection will go directly to the battery, the 2 wires on the 3 pin connector I am assuming one is the alternator warning lamp the other needs to loop back onto the positive connection on the alternator. Have searched and can’t really find anything on these alternators. Anyone done this before able to explain how they managed this?

 

Thanks 

 

 

 

 

[deankxf 20,287]

57 minutes ago, fotz said:

I’ve been looking at the wiring and just checking everything off. Something I haven’t really figured out yet is the alternator. It’s a 3 pin alternator on the motor, does anyone have any advice on how to hook this up in the XF. I have the 3 pin connector it only has 2 wires on it.

 

Currently the XF has 

B+
D+
+
D-

 

The alternator on the Windsor has absolutely no markings. I assume the main connection will go directly to the battery, the 2 wires on the 3 pin connector I am assuming one is the alternator warning lamp the other needs to loop back onto the positive connection on the alternator. Have searched and can’t really find anything on these alternators. Anyone done this before able to explain how they managed this?

 

Thanks 

 

@SPArKy_Dave may speak that language? 

 

i vaguely remember one terminal needs power put to it to excite some part of it.. not enough memory to advise anything

[fotz 20]

Hi all I think I have figured it out.

Obviously - the main cable that goes onto the bolt goes to the positive terminal. The 3 pin clip only has 2 wires in it. See image below. One wire is yellow the other is grey with a pink stripe on it. The yellow one is your battery sense - it can be connected back onto the main bolt for the positive wire. 
 

The grey pink wire is your alternator warning lamp - on the dash.

 

[fotz 20]

On another note - has anyone fitted an XG radiator with EF/EL Thermo fans onto a Windsor EFI motor?

I’m planning to get the xg bottom and top mounts and thinking this will bolt straight in. EF radiator fans will need to modified to fit onto the radiator slightly. Hoses should also pretty much line up (I think)

 

Just wanted to see if this has been done before or should I just use an XD-XF radiator and modify the thermo fans to that?

[deankxf 20,287]

11 hours ago, fotz said:

On another note - has anyone fitted an XG radiator with EF/EL Thermo fans onto a Windsor EFI motor?

I’m planning to get the xg bottom and top mounts and thinking this will bolt straight in. EF radiator fans will need to modified to fit onto the radiator slightly. Hoses should also pretty much line up (I think)

 

Just wanted to see if this has been done before or should I just use an XD-XF radiator and modify the thermo fans to that?

The EA to EL(XH same) radiator is a better fit than XG. The ef el.have same size outlet top and bottom. 

Not sure what size the Windsor has. 

I have a pic of my xe with el radiator and Thermos with 1uz engine but not sure if you will even have space. I'll see if I can find it if we get power back on after the storms..still no power here eastern suburbs melb

 

from memory you can set the bottom mounts to fit the radiator (like an XF) and the top i cut the EF mounting tabs off and modified the top XF mounts with a bracket (cut the mounting part off the hook part and sat the radidiator in and made a plate for between and welded. ) 
i can't remember why you can't use the top mounts, but i have seen them used with mods to the car. 
you need to cut a piece out of the side support near headlight mounts for the header tank /fill port neck to clear. 

 

 

 

[fotz 20]

Thanks @deankxf I already have an EF radiator - with air con - it won’t fit. Those radiators are too wide (approx. 70mm wider than XG) need something narrower. The top

and bottom holes is the same for e series / au Windsor from what I can see.

 

I would have thought that the XG would fit nicely - given it has a the same front end as an XF. The positioning of the hoses with a narrower radiator and the hose sizes was the only thing I was worried about. From what I can see from pictures the XG has different size top and bottom, where Windsor looks the same top and bottom, I assumed I could get some hoses to manage this. 
 

Your photo is questioning me on this but, when I try slot it in the radiator is hitting against the air con canister and pipes.

[deankxf 20,287]

39 minutes ago, fotz said:

Thanks @deankxf I already have an EF radiator - with air con - it won’t fit. Those radiators are too wide (approx. 70mm wider than XG) need something narrower. The top

and bottom holes is the same for e series / au Windsor from what I can see.

 

I would have thought that the XG would fit nicely - given it has a the same front end as an XF. The positioning of the hoses with a narrower radiator and the hose sizes was the only thing I was worried about. From what I can see from pictures the XG has different size top and bottom, where Windsor looks the same top and bottom, I assumed I could get some hoses to manage this. 
 

Your photo is questioning me on this but, when I try slot it in the radiator is hitting against the air con canister and pipes.

My XE had the XE Air con condensor installed with that radiator, i would expect an XF one to be in the same spot(identical radiator hole to XE)

XG uses a completely different bottom radiator mount setup, i also questioned people regarding this when i did the conversion. (i got an XG radiator to try prove them wrong, and an AU one .. didn't fit.) 
the EF one will fit if you cut a slot for the side pipe(fill hose)

 

XG and EA EB ED have bigger size lower radiator hose outlets .. the EA EB ED are the same size as EF EL otherwise, XG narrower but possibly deeper, maybe the lower hose hit the cross member the caster rods mount to? i can't remember. 
XG is different by far to XD XE XF though in the lower radiator mount area. 

i think Ants used a commodore radiator and fan ? in his XD wagon with LS2 engine. 
i'll see if i can find the post, it was a neat fit 

[deankxf 20,287]

1 hour ago, fotz said:

would have thought that the XG would fit nicely -

 

this is a quote from Ant's wagon thread with LS2 or LS3? engine 
 

Just thinking about this.

The car now has a ve radiator and fans and when it was tuned I asked Phonsey to drop the temp at which the ecu turns the fans on as it always ran a bit hot with the falcon fans and radiator.

It cools itself brilliantly now.

The temp guage gets to 3/4, the fans kick in and within 20 seconds they pull the temp back to 1/4 so it's never really hot.

 

posts mentioning radiator in his thread are here (changed from modified use XD radiator when changing the intake setup to an over the radiator "OTR" setup. 
 http://www.ozfalcon.com.au/index.php?/search/&q=radiator&type=forums_topic&item=37

[fotz 20]

5 hours ago, deankxf said:

My XE had the XE Air con condensor installed with that radiator, i would expect an XF one to be in the same spot(identical radiator hole to XE)

XG uses a completely different bottom radiator mount setup, i also questioned people regarding this when i did the conversion. (i got an XG radiator to try prove them wrong, and an AU one .. didn't fit.) 
the EF one will fit if you cut a slot for the side pipe(fill hose)

 

XG and EA EB ED have bigger size lower radiator hose outlets .. the EA EB ED are the same size as EF EL otherwise, XG narrower but possibly deeper, maybe the lower hose hit the cross member the caster rods mount to? i can't remember. 
XG is different by far to XD XE XF though in the lower radiator mount area. 

i think Ants used a commodore radiator and fan ? in his XD wagon with LS2 engine. 
i'll see if i can find the post, it was a neat fit 

thanks @deankxf

 

In relation to XG radiator - mounting it I think I can solve - I can get top and bottom mounts, so provided the xf and xd radiator support and holes are in the same spot - this radiator should slot straight in. But.. I take your point the lower radiator outlet compared to the AU /EF will be a problem - 45mm for XG vs 38 for EF/EL and AU. I do like this options as it feels cleaner to mount and I know you can tweak the fans onto this radiator from what I have read.

 

I already have the ef radiator so let me have a muck around with it on the weekend and check where it’s getting caught and check the approach you followed.

 

 

[deankxf 20,287]

7 hours ago, fotz said:

already have the ef radiator so let me have a muck around with it on the weekend and check where it’s getting caught and check the approach you followed.

i don't have any pics handy, but we fitted an EF radiator and fans to an XG of My mates' last year, this was done by using approximately 50mm square tube to space up the bottom, mounting XF lower mounts to that (for the radiator to sit on, 2 wide rubber pads unlike the XF radiator uses 2 different size end tanks)

and the top mounts as i modded on My XE. 

this was due to fitting an EF EL engine to it (easier to find than another EA EB ED XG engine these days)

[fotz 20]

Hi All, just an update, I will share some picks soon, but things are coming together. I have mounted the motor in the engine bay. AU extractors, definately dont fit, need some serious modification. I have ordered Pacemaker PH 4032 extractors, ill let you know how these go.

 

On another note, I am just about to put the T5 from an e-series into my XF. I have just noticed a couple different things between the XF T5 and also the E series T5.

 

1) The mounting holes underneath the gearbox are not in the same alignment. E-series is more narrower.

2) the bolt threads on the e-series is much thinner than what was in the XF

 

I have found a rod shop mount, that has adjustable holes, so going to go after that one https://www.rodshop.com.au/gearbox-mounts-gbmount06-choice-of-rubber-or-heavy

 

I also noticed that in the XF I have an extra bracket that was used to mount the exchaust. See pictures below. I assume that I can just throw this away as this will only work with a 6cyl and dont think it would have even worked with extractors either.

 

Is there an equivalent one for the v8, or would you just mount the exchaust differently.

 

Thanks

 

Foti

[deankxf 20,287]

1 hour ago, fotz said:

Hi All, just an update, I will share some picks soon, but things are coming together. I have mounted the motor in the engine bay. AU extractors, definately dont fit, need some serious modification. I have ordered Pacemaker PH 4032 extractors, ill let you know how these go.

 

On another note, I am just about to put the T5 from an e-series into my XF. I have just noticed a couple different things between the XF T5 and also the E series T5.

 

1) The mounting holes underneath the gearbox are not in the same alignment. E-series is more narrower.

2) the bolt threads on the e-series is much thinner than what was in the XF

 

I have found a rod shop mount, that has adjustable holes, so going to go after that one https://www.rodshop.com.au/gearbox-mounts-gbmount06-choice-of-rubber-or-heavy

 

I also noticed that in the XF I have an extra bracket that was used to mount the exchaust. See pictures below. I assume that I can just throw this away as this will only work with a 6cyl and dont think it would have even worked with extractors either.

 

Is there an equivalent one for the v8, or would you just mount the exchaust differently.

 

Thanks

 

Foti

See that hole in between the xf cross member holes, you can use the e series gearbox mount with this hole fine in XF.

 

I think they are stronger than the 2 bolt one.

 

Exhaust bracket was a very strong pain in the arms trying to work around , most went in the bin. 

Probably very good at stopping the Exhaust manifold from cracking but not used with extractors 

 

 

[fotz 20]

Interesting, does anyone have a photo of the e-series mount or where to get them from?

 

Is that the one with 1 bolt - and looks like an exchaust flange shape?

 

 

[deankxf 20,287]

2 hours ago, fotz said:

Interesting, does anyone have a photo of the e-series mount or where to get them from?

 

Is that the one with 1 bolt - and looks like an exchaust flange shape?

 

 

Yep that's the one 

 

Just google eb Falcon gearbox mount for a photo 

[fotz 20]

Thanks @deankxf - what’s the thinking on why this would be stronger. It’s only 1 bolt into the Trans mount instead of 2?

[deankxf 20,287]

15 hours ago, fotz said:

Thanks @deankxf - what’s the thinking on why this would be stronger. It’s only 1 bolt into the Trans mount instead of 2?

 

i've never seen one pulled apart like the 2 bolt one's do, they get a bit sloppy eventually (original ford ones are not solid rubber, they have some dampening in them)
due to the one center bolt, they allow a lot of twist and therefore don't break i think. 

 

for $200 odd, the tuff mounts one is the 2 bolt type that would be strong

[fotz 20]

Thanks mate. Rod Shop. also have their own version of this as well. Do you have to drill out that square whole on the cross members, or does that single bolt fit straight thrugh?

[deankxf 20,287]

3 hours ago, fotz said:

Thanks mate. Rod Shop. also have their own version of this as well. Do you have to drill out that square whole on the cross members, or does that single bolt fit straight thrugh?

i can't remember, 

i have a feeling it fits into the mounting bolt as is (maybe the mount has a square at the end of the threads even to locate it)

 

the EB cross member mounts have a square hole also, so i'd say ford must have been considering this mount option at some point

[fotz 20]

Worked like a charm. This mount is way better because it goes into the circular space underneath the gearbox, which the rectangular mount doesn’t really do, so understand now

why it would be stronger. Thanks @deankxf

 

Motor and Gearbox is pretty much in. I just need a nut for that mount which I am going to get now.  Just need to finish off some wiring / mount the dash back up, plumb the power steering, extractors and then I’m getting very close to first start.