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XF AU Windsor conversion

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Thanks [mention=244]gerg[/mention]
 
Trying to understand you
 
In summary are you saying the smaller the ratio number the more torque?
 
Also T5Z is this the V8 box?
 
 
In a nutshell, yes. The taller first gear (numerically smaller) ratio for a given gearbox type will have a higher torque capacity.

As a happy accident of this, larger higher torque engines can tolerate (and benefit from) a taller first as they don't bog down like a smaller engine would, which would feel like you're taking off in second.

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Thanks [mention=244]gerg[/mention]
 
Trying to understand you
 
In summary are you saying the smaller the ratio number the more torque?
 
Also T5Z is this the V8 box?
 
 
The original T5Z was a Ford Motorsport box. I think maybe 94-95 Mustang Cobras had them.

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Hi All

 

I got an EF XR6 diff the other day. code is T4AC - labelled 3.45 diff ratio. I am sure it is the correct one.

 

I would have thought that there would be a hard brake line on it going to either side of the diff and the main braken line, connects into this line from a mount on the chassis.

 

My understanding was the e-series and x-series were the same, and the brake line on the diff there is a hard line? The only difference in the imperial to metric connection from the chassis to the diff.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, fotz said:

Hi All

 

I got an EF XR6 diff the other day. code is T4AC - labelled 3.45 diff ratio. I am sure it is the correct one.

 

I would have thought that there would be a hard brake line on it going to either side of the diff and the main braken line, connects into this line from a mount on the chassis.

 

My understanding was the e-series and x-series were the same, and the brake line on the diff there is a hard line? The only difference in the imperial to metric connection from the chassis to the diff.

 

 

 

no the EF EL diffs are different in the brakes. people have fitted them, but i haven't so can only give second hand advice.

if you can stick your head under an EF or EL you'll see it better than i can explain it(because i haven't ever looked at one )(AU etc is probably same setup? not sure)

 

the EF EL have a hand brake drum type inside the disc rotor for one(it's much more reliable than the XE to ED anyway) 

the EF EL have a T on the body from my understanding and piped to the wheel arches where a flex line goes to the calipers from there.

 

i don't think there's a direct fit hand brake from XF to EF EL diff, people have had them joined or custom made. (due to the EF EL having a hand brake at the console and prior all being the under dash one(known as the umbrella handle) 

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@deankdx - hand brake cable - totally understand the trouble there and saw this coming. The brake line has thrown me off now. Any ideas on how to get this one to fit on an xf? Could I use the existing brake line off the current xf diff?

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45 minutes ago, fotz said:

@deankdx - hand brake cable - totally understand the trouble there and saw this coming. The brake line has thrown me off now. Any ideas on how to get this one to fit on an xf? Could I use the existing brake line off the current xf diff?

from memory the way i saw it done was to fit the brake lines from an EF body(joined a the XF tunnel) to the body of the XF in the same way the EF is done. you could probably do it on the diff? not sure, if it's still got a diff breather in the same place i can't see it not working unless the handbrake cable gets in the way

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The axles do the brakes don't, the axle flange is turned 90 degrees on ef and later diffs
They turned it 90 degrees from drum to disc... Does that mean that a later EF-EL housing is rotated a further 90 so it's the same orientation as the old drum flange?

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They turned it 90 degrees from drum to disc... Does that mean that a later EF-EL housing is rotated a further 90 so it's the same orientation as the old drum flange?

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I'm not sure but it's possible

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but would the brake line for an eb-ed diff bolt straight onto to these callipers? 

 

Might need to bend the lines, but I assume the line is the same?

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10 minutes ago, fotz said:

but would the brake line for an eb-ed diff bolt straight onto to these callipers? 

 

Might need to bend the lines, but I assume the line is the same?

possibly, 

but if you have a brake shop somewhere nearby, it wouldn't be that dear to make up what's needed. 

 

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For me with the brakes which I did with my car, u are spending the time to do it do the finer details.

Pull the back brakes lines off a EF/EL including the t block which bolts to the floor, then drill the brackets that hold the flex hoses to the chassis off.

To make the the t block to work on ur xf half along the tunnel should be a joiner undo and take to a brake place and get to put the correct flare nut to go into the t block (sorry mind gone blank can't remember the number of nut), weld the flex hose brackets on then it's set up the same way as EF/EL in all of this aspect.

With handbrake cable, mine was setup with a wagon cable which was off a a bench seat wagon so it use a foot parkbrake so possible to use some parts from one of them and parts from a sedan together.

Also best part of using ford gear is when then checked my van for rego it all looks factory and it's not aftermarket stuff so they didn't want it engineered

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thanks @deankdx and @jca25

 

I am trying to source the brake lines, brackets and t piece with bracket from an EF at the moment and will try to fit this to the xf. 

 

Also trying to get a video\photo of how it looks under ef\el,

 

I have the brake line adapter - imperial\metric adapter ready to go, so this will still play a role in this.

 

But I think this is the way to go.

 

Handbrake cable - I think I found a company that will help with tha, but ill need to share the fittings and the measurements. Ill sort that out later :)

 

Thanks again for all the suggestions, will share the final result when its done.

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thanks [mention=291]deankdx[/mention] and [mention=39]jca25[/mention]
 
I am trying to source the brake lines, brackets and t piece with bracket from an EF at the moment and will try to fit this to the xf. 
 
Also trying to get a video\photo of how it looks under ef\el,
 
I have the brake line adapter - imperial\metric adapter ready to go, so this will still play a role in this.
 
But I think this is the way to go.
 
Handbrake cable - I think I found a company that will help with tha, but ill need to share the fittings and the measurements. Ill sort that out later
 
Thanks again for all the suggestions, will share the final result when its done.
Nice one, here is a few pics off mine I made all my pipes new and just bent it to suit the t block bolts on were the bracket for the flex hose that would go to the xf diff.4ad9863af543dc5c291652fd3b889a28.jpg8e97cb4a116e857dc2afdb97247595ab.jpg06217e23816454aea7166a38e59cd25c.jpg360191449da8030406253de13c7ca430.jpgde7f32223e56958afc2cc9efa4016042.jpg

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21 hours ago, jca25 said:

Nice one, here is a few pics off mine I made all my pipes new and just bent it to suit the t block bolts on were the bracket for the flex hose that would go to the xf diff.
 

 

Thanks so much @jca25 - ill go through this.

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Hey guys, quick one.. back on the t5 gearbox. Is the input shaft the same from xf-el falcon for 6cyl, is it around 167mm?

 

Also is v8 a little longer from eb-el? Does anyone know the exact size? Hard to find. Is it 193mm?

 

Also my understanding is that 1st gear ratio is as per below:

6cyl

XF-EB - 3.5

EBII to EL - 3.25

V8

EBII-EL - 2.95

 

Where can I confirm this 100%

 

Thanks

 

 

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Thanks @gerg. Eb-EL v8 would still have a longer input shaft right? 

 

Also for bellhousing I have tracked a 6cyl t5 bellhousing that bolts up against a clevo. The old windsors I believe were the same bolt pattern.

 

Would this bolt up against the windsor efi from AU. For the old clevo\windsor they have the starter on the Drivers side and the clutch fork on the passenger side. No idea what the E series or AU had setup? I am sure i could work around it, but more concerned if it will bolt up ok, and that I can still bolt up a starter motor?

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I think@Thom might have to chime in here. My understanding was that from EB V8 onwards, the longer input box was used.

I always thought that 302 Windsors used a 157 tooth flywheel and bell (post 1965) but have since learnt that at least the aussie auto versions in the E-series used a 164 like clevos do. Now I can't say whether the manuals are 157 or 164 but whichever it is, will need the corresponding bellhousing.

Make sure you have the right imbalance flywheel. Pre-1980 use 28 oz, after that it was 50.

I had a similar issue adapting my EA T5 to my clevo. Input length was fine, but single rail bellhousings don't have a big enough mounting pad for the lower holes on the T5 to drill and tap for. So I went with a toploader bell that was for an F-truck with mechanical linkage clutch, and I had to make my own slave cylinder mount bracket.

The outside of the snout (the bit that locates in the big hole in the bellhousing) has to be machined down 1.5mm to fit the toploader/single rail diameter.

I looked for ages at the time, but there just wasn't a T5 bell that bolted up to a clevo or Windsor that wasn't the long input shaft type. I even enquired about importing a used mustang one with cable type fork, but that was too hard, and would have needed a 157 flywheel.

In the end, I adapted the toploader one with silver-soldered studs in the top (the new holes were too close to the old ones to just drill and tap only) and drilled and tapped the bottom ones, all to suit the T5 pattern. This was the cheapest way of getting my existing EA T5 to bolt to the clevo. Only other option was going to be a CRS one which was too dear for me at the time.

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What 6 cyl T5 housing are you referring to? If it's the Aussie one, no it won't bolt to a V8. I believe the later US 250s used a V8 bolt pattern but I don't think they ever had T5s behind them. It would be handy to know if they actually did though.

 

Later 289s, 302s, 351Ws and 302/351Cs and some very early 400s all use the small block bellhousing pattern, and are all interchangeable, except for very early 221/260/289s which had a 5-bolt mounting but they're so rare now that it doesn't even matter.

 

What is important to get right is the flywheel tooth count. The flywheel and bellhousing have to match, otherwise the starter will be in the wrong spot to suit the flywheel diameter.

 

If you happen to get a bellhousing with a starter mount on the passenger side, you may have header/manifold clearance issues with conventional pipes.

 

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