EFI TO CARB

[Crebe 16]

Hi. I have a 1966 XR ute with a 5lt eb and aod or aode. The problem is I just keep running into all this tech stuff to get the motor running rite and any thoughts of an upgrade to tuning the efi or head and other mechanical upgrades brings a terrifying wave of tech crap. For all the wizbang tech the later motor has , 25 years after the 302 was released in the XT falcon it still has the same output. Yes it's probably 10% cleaner but a 100% more of a pain to work on, tune or modify. Those of you that love modern tech, electronics, iPhone etc won't understand why I would want to swap back to the dark side, or carbs, but life will be much easier. Anyone who knows what can and can't be removed or has some suggestions for heads cam rockers lifters, inlet manifold and carb can please put forward for us all to consider. I have been eyeing of a pair of trick flow heads. 190cc runners with 53 cc chambers. Can't seem to get the information on what sort of compression I would end up with. I have tried asking some forums to no avail. If anyone has a formula or has done something like this please feel free to let me know. This idea all started with the knowledge that my 5lt has shite heads that had to go. A Trickflow top end EFI kit was considered but after looking at more electronic and specialist tech work to get it running rite I thought I should go carb instead. And your thoughts are?

[deankxf 20,266]

@Thom is Very Busy, but knows a lot about them, 

 

how fast do you want to go? the XR falcon is pretty light.  

i have a couple of mates with EF and XH with the crap heads, they both go well and are basically stock (possible better extractors than the garbage manifolds they came with)

one with a manual runs a 15.9 1/4mile with 400,000kms on it is in an XH ute. 

 

the AU falcon heads and intake are the better ones, 

 

but yeah i'm with you on the going back to carby's however then you may not be able to use the 4 speed auto. . 

[Thom 6,650]

Hi. I have a 1966 XR ute with a 5lt eb and aod or aode. The problem is I just keep running into all this tech stuff to get the motor running rite and any thoughts of an upgrade to tuning the efi or head and other mechanical upgrades brings a terrifying wave of tech crap. For all the wizbang tech the later motor has , 25 years after the 302 was released in the XT falcon it still has the same output. Yes it's probably 10% cleaner but a 100% more of a pain to work on, tune or modify. Those of you that love modern tech, electronics, iPhone etc won't understand why I would want to swap back to the dark side, or carbs, but life will be much easier. Anyone who knows what can and can't be removed or has some suggestions for heads cam rockers lifters, inlet manifold and carb can please put forward for us all to consider. I have been eyeing of a pair of trick flow heads. 190cc runners with 53 cc chambers. Can't seem to get the information on what sort of compression I would end up with. I have tried asking some forums to no avail. If anyone has a formula or has done something like this please feel free to let me know. This idea all started with the knowledge that my 5lt has shite heads that had to go. A Trickflow top end EFI kit was considered but after looking at more electronic and specialist tech work to get it running rite I thought I should go carb instead. And your thoughts are?

The engine itself is pretty easy to convert to carb, most 8.2 deck carb intakes will bolt straight to the engine so basically pick your manifold and carb of choice, edelbrock dual plane air gaps work really well for a nice driver, almost all carb manifolds will lose a little low down torque as its not really practical to create carb manifolds with intake runners as long as the efi intakes, but most will see an improvement in hp and make the engine a little more rev happy, there are a couple of options for distributors you can use the stock efi dizzy and use an msd/ice ignition/crane fireball box that has timing control to run the distributor, or you could just drop in an aftermarket dizzy (electronic or points your choice) and go. The hardest part is the transmission if it is the original unit from the eb the trans is a btr 4 speed which is essentially and Australianonly market trans so not much is availableforthen in the aftermarket (Australian delivered vehicles never had aod/aode), these trans are difficult to set-up as a stand alone unit, they still require a tps signal, speedo signal and a trans control unit to run, a couple of places like shiftkits Australia do make stand alone trans computers but from what I'm aware they only do manually shifted units, as far as comp ratios and such go you will have to work out which pistons your engine has, most Aussie 5.0's had flat tops with valve reliefs cut into the pistons but some engines had dished pistons

[Crebe 16]

Thanks for the info. The gearbox was one of the problems I thought I would have. Man if only it had a manual box. Yet another reason to give th he tech stuff a miss. Hey that's interesting what was said about the AOD AND AODE box not coming to Oz. I was reading some info about those boxes and could have sworn it was an Ozy doing the talking. I will see if I can find the link. Another thing I will di is grt ridvof the xb diff as it has bent axles and even though I have reconditioned everything in the brakes and added a brake bias valve I keep getting rear luckup. Their I squeeze them in without a rush it's not to bad, but if I am a bit Buick the rear will lock. I have xf disc front brakes and xb drum rears with an XA style 1 inch master cylinder with a cheap aftermarket 7 inch single diaphram booster. Crap results. Yet another job to get it working rite. I went to three brake guys and they were not much help at all. Refused to install the bias as it wasn't bought at the same place and wanted to go over the entire car system and they would fix it. No quotes just give us your car and pay when you get it back. These guys would not even make the diffs rear brake lines. It took two lots of material but I did Them myself and they look perfect.

[deankxf 20,266]

1 hour ago, Crebe said:

these guys would not even make the diffs rear brake lines

 

these days, mechanics(if you can even call the modern ones mechanics) don't want to touch anything old, snapped/rusted bolt = hours wasted can't justify charging the customer $400 to remove a broken bolt.over quoting a job because they don't want it, then fucking it up if they get the job because they aren't skilled in working on junk. 

 

you are right to have a go yourself on older cars, most of the info has been covered either on a youtube clip or forum. 

can't help you with brakes, although don't rule out the rubber hoses, they can be semi blocked and then when you push hard they flow and are slow to release.. consider changing the rubber hose at the diff T piece if it's still old

[bear351c 10,270]

Nice work getting the brake lines done yourself. 

 

Absolutely sure you bled the rears ok.?  Air bubbles may cause the lockup. Not many reasons, if you have a proportioning valve fitted. 

[Thom 6,650]

If you dont mind going without an overdrive a c10 with a Cleveland torque converter will bolt up to the roller 5.0 and flexplate

[gerg 10,871]

Don't forget the 50oz imbalance on post-1980 302s vs 28oz earlier (including clevos)

Sent from my CPH1920 using Tapatalk

[bear351c 10,270]

Few things to be wary of, was looking into this conversion myself. Managed to find a carby version, for the same reasons you stated above. Plus I'm old school.

 

 

[Crebe 16]

Hey guys thanks for the replies and the info. Am still trying to use the site but its way better than the other forum to learn and so far the people have been very helpful. Re  my brakes I have replaced all hses with braided fronts and new rear rubber also bought two types of bleaders, one is massive, and bled the shite out of them. A job I learnt at about age 10 from mech Dad. Also was told the gearbox is not a AOD OR AODE so went digging and sure shite its a DSI/BTR M95LE. I do see various aod performance boxes offered in aus just to nite. I also saw a pages on the Mods for the BTR box DTW I think, and they mentioned the separate ECUs and full manual conversions. Anyway good info and help. I am answering this via my phone as the replies come in via email. If I look at OzFalcon on my tablet I'm forked if I can see how to find my shite. I will keep having a go. Drove my first car at 6 with Dad as my tutor. Stole the same car at 7 and drove it myself! 6500 acres of race track.

[bear351c 10,270]

HA HA HA....... love that last bit.

 

Try looking up Unread content, or Content I started, or maybe V8 tech/Windsor/EFI to carb. Then click on the little clock (last time something was posted)

[Thom 6,650]

Hey guys thanks for the replies and the info. Am still trying to use the site but its way better than the other forum to learn and so far the people have been very helpful. Re  my brakes I have replaced all hses with braided fronts and new rear rubber also bought two types of bleaders, one is massive, and bled the shite out of them. A job I learnt at about age 10 from mech Dad. Also was told the gearbox is not a AOD OR AODE so went digging and sure shite its a DSI/BTR M95LE. I do see various aod performance boxes offered in aus just to nite. I also saw a pages on the Mods for the BTR box DTW I think, and they mentioned the separate ECUs and full manual conversions. Anyway good info and help. I am answering this via my phone as the replies come in via email. If I look at OzFalcon on my tablet I'm forked if I can see how to find my shite. I will keep having a go. Drove my first car at 6 with Dad as my tutor. Stole the same car at 7 and drove it myself! 6500 acres of race track.

For using phone and tablet to browse the forum the Tapatalk app is pretty user friendly

[Crebe 16]

I was looking a site with some useful info on swapping a 5lt windsor and several of the common mistakes made. I am still checking mine and have found three so far. 5lt should have 2 cos sensors and they should be within 3 inches down street of the exhaust collector. Strike 1. The air filter  should not be fitted straight up against the MAF. Strike 2. The throttle body should not have a bend directly (close) before or after it. Strike 3. The alternative location  for the air cleaner is up front left side near the radiator. This requires shrouding the filter. All bullshite or not.? Here hopefully is the thingy to go to. https://www.hotrod.com/articles/25-ford-302-5-0-efi-engine-swap-errors/ 

For a carby guy struggling to get a handle on some of the efi tech, I found this helpful.

[Mr Polson 10,214]

I was looking a site with some useful info on swapping a 5lt windsor and several of the common mistakes made. I am still checking mine and have found three so far. 5lt should have 2 cos sensors and they should be within 3 inches down street of the exhaust collector. Strike 1. The air filter  should not be fitted straight up against the MAF. Strike 2. The throttle body should not have a bend directly (close) before or after it. Strike 3. The alternative location  for the air cleaner is up front left side near the radiator. This requires shrouding the filter. All bullshite or not.? Here hopefully is the thingy to go to. https://www.hotrod.com/articles/25-ford-302-5-0-efi-engine-swap-errors/ 
For a carby guy struggling to get a handle on some of the efi tech, I found this helpful.

I think you can ignore anything in that article about computers or sensors if you're planning on converting to carby.

[Crebe 16]

Yep I think I was just hope full my car could get an easy fix or two to keep it going for the moment. There is a bit to concider if I go carby. The 5.0 has the starter on the passenger side as well end if I swapped to a manual or an old school 3 speed I would have to get an early bellhousing. I swapped my first cars (HR prem wagon) 2 speed auto with a borgy 4 speed out of a P76. It worked wonders having 4 gears to help the poor old 186. My next car was a 351 XY Fairmont, I wish I never got rid of it, anyway swapped the 3 speed auto for a 302 XB GS borgy 4 speed. As I was getting around 12 mpg with my warmish motor and 2.75 9" diff. I picked up about an extra 8 mpg to 20 mpg. So I know there are advantages for manuals, it's just that time has changed so much so far as cars are concerned. Fuels, emission controls, electronic management of everything, and complexity. I looked at going for a to but after talking with Mal Woods and getting most of what I needed it would have been around 6800. Yikes take me back to the 70's please.

As a side to the efi to carry thing does someone have a way for me to get a photo in my little window (don't know the proper name) for my posts and replies etc

[Outback Jack 6,352]

Welcome Crebe,
I'm old skool too and like my carbies.
I know for a six a manifold is $550 and good carb around $6-700.
That's top gear, Aussiespeed 4 barrel manifold and Black Diamond 600 Quick Fuel carby.
Then an MSD 6AL-2 and coil $650.
Then MSD leads $150.

There's a bit over 2K there and you still need a low volume fuel reg to feed carby at 3-5psi.
And a Wideband O2 sensor set up to keep an eye on AFR's would be a good idea.
Stand alone modules are available for auto boxes.

So at about 2.5-3K and some new wiring ...you can pull the ecu out and drop kick it across the yard.


Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

[deankxf 20,266]

12 hours ago, Crebe said:

does someone have a way for me to get a photo in my little window (don't know the proper name) for my posts and replies etc

the photo next to your name is often called an "avatar" usually, but on this site it's titled "profile photo" 

 

on a pc or laptop you'd go to the dropdown arrow top right corner near your name, click profile, and click on the profile photo (blank in your case) and it will have an upload etc it's size and space setting is VERY tiny.  

not sure how to do it on a mobile app/device 
give it a try and let us know if you can't figure it out. 

there's a link below for uploading normal photos to a thread/post. if you get one uploaded @Mr Polson may be able to insert it into your profile photo

 

 

 

[bear351c 10,270]

14 hours ago, Crebe said:

 I looked at going for a to but after talking with Mal Woods and getting most of what I needed it would have been around 6800. Yikes take me back to the 70's please.

As a side to the efi to carry thing does someone have a way for me to get a photo in my little window (don't know the proper name) for my posts and replies etc

 

Yeah......... emailed Mal Wood, and was shocked at the price too.!  Looking at getting a T5 or TKO for the XP project, but SHEESH.!!!  might have to go C4, or limit the horsepower output.

 

 

Wait,

 

What.??

[wok 204]

G'Day my 2cents

i did EFi to carb on NC failance windsor for my T-bucket, used aftermarket HEI dizzy (needed bronze dizzy gear from memory), used Torker II intake, holley carb, C10 auto it went really well, T-bucket being light(ish), as im not a tech/wiring guy either,  i reckon it cost my under $1000 at the time with second hand parts except dizzy)

 

i have had a few E series V8's and all went really well, with all factory stuff, agree its only 165KW engine in stock form but you should be able to get it to work at least to original factory specs, espiclaly if its already in the car, with exhaust and all the computer/ wiring/hoses etc done, i wouldnt be swapping from EFi just yet, as as mentioned the cascade effect on having to acquire & swap trans/starter and other related gear

 

Sometimes its best to let the experts at this stuff, work on them and sort out the issues, use your time to make money doing what ever you do best/ skillset is,... then use that money to get expert help (i always hang around so i learn something from the money i spend with them too, so its win/win...car gets fixed and i learn something for next time).

 

I had to do this with my barra powered xe, we mucked around for days trouble shooting some issues, tying stuff, swapping parts all to no avail, rang around, found a tuner and the end it was in the setting in the unlocked computer that needed changing via HP tuners. 

 

do you have pics of the current setup ?

cheers

Wok

 

 

 

 

[deankxf 20,266]

2 hours ago, wok said:

Sometimes its best to let the experts at this stuff, work on them and sort out the issues, use your time to make money doing what ever you do best/ skillset is,... then use that money to get expert help (i always hang around so i learn something from the money i spend with them too, so its win/win...car gets fixed and i learn something for next time).

 

this is excellent advice. if you can afford it, it's usually worth it if you can find someone you can trust to do the work properly 

[Crebe 16]

Yep I think I was just hope full my car could get an easy fix or two to keep it going for the moment. There is a bit to concider if I go carby. The 5.0 has the starter on the passenger side as well end if I swapped to a manual or an old school 3 speed I would have to get an early bellhousing. I swapped my first cars (HR prem wagon) 2 speed auto with a borgy 4 speed out of a P76. It worked wonders having 4 gears to help the poor old 186. My next car was a 351 XY Fairmont, I wish I never got rid of it, anyway swapped the 3 speed auto for a 302 XB GS borgy 4 speed. As I was getting around 12 mpg with my warmish motor and 2.75 9" diff. I picked up about an extra 8 mpg to 20 mpg. So I know there are advantages for manuals, it's just that time has changed so much so far as cars are concerned. Fuels, emission controls, electronic management of everything, and complexity. I looked at going for a to but after talking with Mal Woods and getting most of what I needed it would have been around 6800. Yikes take me back to the 70's please.

As a side to the efi to carry thing does someone have a way for me to get a photo in my little window (don't know the proper name) for my posts and replies etc

[bear351c 10,270]

It's called an avatar. (little photo)  Go up to the top right corner, click on your username, and I think its in the settings...? Edit photo, or something.