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IVC434

Old XC Crossflow engine...

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Hello everyone. 

 

I'm very slowly getting into the old and long silent engine in my late Grandfather's 1977 XC Falcon. 

 

The car hasn't turned over since around 1988 or 1989 I think, so I know I'll have to be gentle with the restarting process. 

 

Today, I removed the upper and lower radiator hoses for a bit of a look, and the contrast between each was astounding... I'm just wondering how concerned I should be about the results? 

 

Top hose was perfectly fine at the radiator end, although it was dry. However, when I took the hose off at the thermostat housing, I found it was jam packed with a powdery substance. 

Thermostat housing...Strange powdery substance from the thermostat housing...

 

I thought that it might have been the same story with the lower hose and the water pump, but as I loosened the hose clamp, I could hear the coolant still gurgling in the pump and hose. 

 

Coolant poured out quite freely when the hose was removed. 

Water pump housing...

The coolant looked quite clean considering the length of time the car was stored for. 

 

Is it possible that my Grandfather might have used a stop-leak solution in the coolant? Or some sort of rust inhibitor? 

 

Is the powder something that anyone else has ever seen before? Should it clean out easily with a good flush of the engine? 

 

Any advice is greatly appreciated. 

 

Thank you. 😊

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Hello everyone. 
 
I'm very slowly getting into the old and long silent engine in my late Grandfather's 1977 XC Falcon. 
 
The car hasn't turned over since around 1988 or 1989 I think, so I know I'll have to be gentle with the restarting process. 
 
Today, I removed the upper and lower radiator hoses for a bit of a look, and the contrast between each was astounding... I'm just wondering how concerned I should be about the results? 
 
Top hose was perfectly fine at the radiator end, although it was dry. However, when I took the hose off at the thermostat housing, I found it was jam packed with a powdery substance. 
51072809362_44a758e9f6_b.jpg51003524910_33472254ee_b.jpg  
I thought that it might have been the same story with the lower hose and the water pump, but as I loosened the hose clamp, I could hear the coolant still gurgling in the pump and hose. 
 
Coolant poured out quite freely when the hose was removed. 
51072809177_402b534787_b.jpg The coolant looked quite clean considering the length of time the car was stored for. 
 
Is it possible that my Grandfather might have used a stop-leak solution in the coolant? Or some sort of rust inhibitor? 
 
Is the powder something that anyone else has ever seen before? Should it clean out easily with a good flush of the engine? 
 
Any advice is greatly appreciated. 
 
Thank you.
G'day mate

The powder is pretty expected, as the thermostat housing is normally die cast zinc and acts as an anode (sacrificial metal) in the cooling system. The rusty water is a bit of a worry but only a flush will reveal what corrosion/sediment is in the water jacket. I've found that once the oxygen in the water has reacted with the metal and has depleted, the amount of further corrosion in the water jacket diminishes.

The radiator will likely need at least a service or re-core, replace all hoses and do the water pump. The ceramic seal inside it will likely be contaminated with rusty deposits.

Sent from my CPH1920 using Tapatalk

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i agree with gerg above,

that's pretty normal..

something you'll probably need to be prepared for undoing the water pump bolts is a potential for them to break...

if you get yourself a MAPP GAS torch, you can heat the alloy water pump around the bolts and maybe the block itself.. around that area(broken bolts are a pain in the rear)

 

you'll also use the torch on exhaust bolts, brake line nuts, LOTS OF THINGS.. one of the most useful tools is HEAT!  and WD40/penetrene etc..

 

i'd also tap out an EASY welsh plug, (under exhaust manifold in the block) if it's brass.. maybe the rest are.. if it's rusted steel, plan for the rest. 

 

radiator i'd leave for a while, i'd get a RADIATOR SOCK for the top hose..(will be rust flakes and crud coming from the engine once it gets run a few times) by all means flush it several times before. 
i can link you to another thread on another forum that has EVERYTHING you are likely to encounter also..  Bretts XK ute on fordforums https://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11355657

 

 

link to the Mapp gas torch(first one i came across complete, cheaper elsewhere though)

https://sydneytools.com.au/product/bernzomatic-ts8000tk-400g-mappro-yellow-cylinder-with-high-intensity-triggerstart-torch?gclid=Cj0KCQjwjPaCBhDkARIsAISZN7SmMHewbtZjIpVgyMU3XpFh-jmEJnwHyxxSQccPKh5hn6s54Bb7DtkaAm4bEALw_wcB

 

0B4BF91645584EBCA86FCA73AC48D7E86BE5B1C1

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14 minutes ago, deankdx said:

i agree with gerg above,

that's pretty normal..

something you'll probably need to be prepared for undoing the water pump bolts is a potential for them to break...

if you get yourself a MAPP GAS torch, you can heat the alloy water pump around the bolts and maybe the block itself.. around that area(broken bolts are a pain in the rear)

 

you'll also use the torch on exhaust bolts, brake line nuts, LOTS OF THINGS.. one of the most useful tools is HEAT!  and WD40/penetrene etc..

 

i'd also tap out an EASY welsh plug, (under exhaust manifold in the block) if it's brass.. maybe the rest are.. if it's rusted steel, plan for the rest. 

 

radiator i'd leave for a while, i'd get a RADIATOR SOCK for the top hose..(will be rust flakes and crud coming from the engine once it gets run a few times) by all means flush it several times before. 
i can link you to another thread on another forum that has EVERYTHING you are likely to encounter also..  Bretts XK ute on fordforums https://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11355657

 

 

link to the Mapp gas torch(first one i came across complete, cheaper elsewhere though)

https://sydneytools.com.au/product/bernzomatic-ts8000tk-400g-mappro-yellow-cylinder-with-high-intensity-triggerstart-torch?gclid=Cj0KCQjwjPaCBhDkARIsAISZN7SmMHewbtZjIpVgyMU3XpFh-jmEJnwHyxxSQccPKh5hn6s54Bb7DtkaAm4bEALw_wcB

 

0B4BF91645584EBCA86FCA73AC48D7E86BE5B1C1

Dean, you are such a bloody legend. 

 

As are all the blokes on this forum. 

 

I'm genuinely grateful for the knowledge and wisdom that you all share... 

 

You give me more confidence each time... 

 

Thank you. 

 

I'll invest in those tools as soon as my cash situation improves... 

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4 minutes ago, IVC434 said:

Dean, you are such a bloody legend. 

 

As are all the blokes on this forum. 

 

I'm genuinely grateful for the knowledge and wisdom that you all share... 

 

You give me more confidence each time... 

 

Thank you. 

 

I'll invest in those tools as soon as my cash situation improves... 

if you read that thread on the xk ute, you'll be a good way prepared for most issues.

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46 minutes ago, deankdx said:

if you read that thread on the xk ute, you'll be a good way prepared for most issues.

I'm trying to read it mate, but I've only just joined that forum and I'm waiting for the admin to approve me. 😊🙏👍

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1 minute ago, IVC434 said:

I'm trying to read it mate, but I've only just joined that forum and I'm waiting for the admin to approve me. 😊🙏👍

let me know if you don't get approved over the weekend, i'll pm a moderator .. you could also start/duplicate your build thread in the "project cars" section there, there are a LOT of XC owners on that site. could be helpful for things we miss etc . 

 

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One way to GENTLY clean out cooling system corrosion such as the above,

is to use some Evaporust cooling system flush.

 

I have used it, and it works very well.

 

You fill the entire cooling system with it, as you would a normal coolant,

then run the vehicle through a few heat cycles over a week or so, depending on the corrosion level.

 

There were some new old Stock Thermostat housings on ebay a while ago.

If not, I may be able to get you a NOS one,

and/or a near perfect condition second hand one, if you can't afford new.

 

I see the lower radiator hose and water pump heater hose, have the factory Utilux clamps still.

Very cool!

 

The factory Crossflow 76DA water pumps have cast iron impellers,

whereas the only aftermarket options (GMB or Gates), have stamped steel impellers which IMO are not as good.

 

If your water pump is a factory NON-aircon type (metal fan), I may be able to find you a NOS genuine ford one of those too,

maybe....

Only if yours is no good.

 

edit -

 

here is an old-stock (OEM Ford supplier but Repco boxed) water pump with the die-cast housing, and cast iron impeller -
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NOS-REPCO-Water-Pump-Ford-Falcon-200-250-6-Cylinder-Cortina-New-XC-XD-WP1805/233853940296

 

and an extremely overpriced thermostat housing -

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/XC-XD-XE-XF-FALCON-TE-TF-MK4-MK5-CORTINA-GEN-FORD-NOS-6-CYL-THERMOSTAT-HOUSING/323710063630

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, SPArKy_Dave said:

One way to GENTLY clean out cooling system corrosion such as the above,

is to use some Evaporust cooling system flush.

 

I have used it, and it works very well.

 

THIS Sounds like a great idea, but do the rust flakes hurt the water pump seal regardless? do you use a sock in the top hose to catch the majority junk before it re enters the water pump..

looks like a good idea.

 

i once had a cooling system "power flushed" not sure what that actually is.. but he said it often bursts the heater core if they are close to failing.. so i assume high pressure back flushing

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THIS Sounds like a great idea, but do the rust flakes hurt the water pump seal regardless? do you use a sock in the top hose to catch the majority junk before it re enters the water pump..
looks like a good idea.
 
i once had a cooling system "power flushed" not sure what that actually is.. but he said it often bursts the heater core if they are close to failing.. so i assume high pressure back flushing
Yeah we used to have one back at the buses. You attach a water hose to fill the reservoir, and an air hose with a pressure reducing valve to charge it, and a release valve to punch it through the system at high speed. It attached to one of the heater hoses from memory. You leave the bottom rad hose off and watch the s*** come flying out.

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11 hours ago, deankdx said:

 

THIS Sounds like a great idea, but do the rust flakes hurt the water pump seal regardless? do you use a sock in the top hose to catch the majority junk before it re enters the water pump..

looks like a good idea.

 

Yes, I put an inline filter sock and removed the thermostat, prior to filling with the Evaporust stuff.

 

I used a Tefba filter unit, which has a magnet in it also.

I improved the stock included metal filter, by covering it in some stocking type filter material.

I was amazed at the sheer volume of rust flakes and stuff caught by the filter.

 

10,000km later, I was still cleaning it out every week or so.

 

The cleaning intervals get longer, but wow it grabs alot of stuff.

Neglected cooling systems are the WORST!

 

edit -

I have power-flushed (incl reverse flush) (with a jet nozzle on the hose) blocked falcon heater cores directly, with great success.

Falcon/Commodore ones are all brass/copper,

but many imported and/or JDM vehicles have plastic end-tank heater cores - which I've had split once RANDOMLY (likely from steam pocket).

 

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