Outback Jack 6,352 Posted October 13, 2020 Hey Guys, I have put an EL ecu into my XG and everything seems fine except it is idling at about 1100rpm, sometimes it will drop to 700-750rpm but if you stab the throttle it settles at 1100rpm again. I ran my code reader on it and are getting codes121-Throttle Position Sensor out of Calibration range. Also throwing411/412- Idle Speed Control Low/High idle fail. It seems to me I need to calibrate the TPS for the ecu, but unsure how and think this maybe causing the low/high ISC fault. I am going to check for any vaccum leaks, idle is quite nice and I have adjusted idle already. Going to try a few things, but if anyone has a fix for this, please let me know.Will be handy knowledge to have on site too. Cheers Fellas. Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outback Jack 6,352 Posted October 13, 2020 Idle Speed Controller tested- 10ohm resistance.Power with key 'ON' to Idle Speed Controller tested- 12V.So ISC checks out OK and ECU is supplying power to it.Next....Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outback Jack 6,352 Posted October 13, 2020 I did get it to idle at around 780rpm for awhile but put the ecu into diagnostic mode with code reader and after turning it off and restarting the ute out of diagnostic mode, it returns to idle at 1000-1100rpm.Can't seem to perform a goose test and if I jump the two left pins to get into base timing mode it doesn't seem to work.Back at it again.....Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thom 6,650 Posted October 13, 2020 Hey Guys, I have put an EL ecu into my XG and everything seems fine except it is idling at about 1100rpm, sometimes it will drop to 700-750rpm but if you stab the throttle it settles at 1100rpm again. I ran my code reader on it and are getting codes121-Throttle Position Sensor out of Calibration range. Also throwing411/412- Idle Speed Control Low/High idle fail. It seems to me I need to calibrate the TPS for the ecu, but unsure how and think this maybe causing the low/high ISC fault. I am going to check for any vaccum leaks, idle is quite nice and I have adjusted idle already. Going to try a few things, but if anyone has a fix for this, please let me know.Will be handy knowledge to have on site too. Cheers Fellas. Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk Now that you mention this i seem to remember having similar problems with a mates xg when we put an el ecu in it, from memory the fix was to put an xh non bbm tps on, they read the same voltage as an ef/el tps but spin the opposite direction from a bbm equipped car,in short the log manifold tb opens the opposite direction from a bbm tb but i think (not 100% memory is a bit hazy) the el tps runs in a different range from the ed style and earlier 2 Ando81 and Outback Jack reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outback Jack 6,352 Posted October 13, 2020 Cheers@Thom , It's giving me the shits. Lol. I had the EL XR6 ecu on her, fuel pressure is adjusted to 300kpa at WOT.I've tried doing the base timing a dozen times.I will just keep fault finding, seems to be the same high idle issue with j3 chip in or out.I had the tune done specifically for an XG running an EL ecu and a LOG manifold.I have a spare TPS here, to try but I might have to look into this problem a bit more. Going to look for leaks and stuff, if none, will put ED ecu back in and see if she idles fine.It's kind of doing my head in, and I burnt my forearms from continually trying to adjust the base idle.Having a break now, before I bend something....Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted October 13, 2020 I know this might be a dumb question, but could the ECU be for an auto? My EF did this exact thing when I swapped the manual into it, and the only bush mechanic way I knew how to fix it (without splashing out $500 on a manual ECU), was to install an adjustable stop bolt in the ISC that limited how far it could open.I believe the ECU hangs the rpm up with autos to mask the downshift back into 1st or 2nd or also to mask the engagement of the over-run clutch, whatever it's for, it's a thing.... Does that sound right Thom?Sent from my CPH1920 using Tapatalk 1 Outback Jack reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thom 6,650 Posted October 13, 2020 I know this might be a dumb question, but could the ECU be for an auto? My EF did this exact thing when I swapped the manual into it, and the only bush mechanic way I knew how to fix it (without splashing out $500 on a manual ECU), was to install an adjustable stop bolt in the ISC that limited how far it could open.I believe the ECU hangs the rpm up with autos to mask the downshift back into 1st or 2nd or also to mask the engagement of the over-run clutch, whatever it's for, it's a thing.... Does that sound right Thom?Sent from my CPH1920 using TapatalkIt could be, I'm not in the position to say for sure as I never played with auto stuff back then, I do remember that a couple of people I knew that turned auto cars to 5 speed cars had all kinds of fuckey issues like that but I don't really remember the solution 2 gerg and Outback Jack reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outback Jack 6,352 Posted October 13, 2020 I know this might be a dumb question, but could the ECU be for an auto? My EF did this exact thing when I swapped the manual into it, and the only bush mechanic way I knew how to fix it (without splashing out $500 on a manual ECU), was to install an adjustable stop bolt in the ISC that limited how far it could open.I believe the ECU hangs the rpm up with autos to mask the downshift back into 1st or 2nd or also to mask the engagement of the over-run clutch, whatever it's for, it's a thing.... Does that sound right Thom?Sent from my CPH1920 using TapatalkThere's no dumb questions Gerg. It is in a 6TAC ecu casing, which should be an EL XR6 ecu. Even if it didn't work on the ecu if it was auto, with the j3 the tune over rides the ecu and the tune is manual 5spd.So I'm kind of lost....it maybe a fault in the ecu or as Thom said TPS related.If I could just get it to goose the throttle, I'm sure the ecu could get the values right. I bridged the pins on the left of the diagnostic port to try and put it in base timing mode, and it's not having a bar of it.That could be because the idle is too high/ no TPS calibration or there's a fault with the ECU.Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk 1 gerg reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outback Jack 6,352 Posted October 13, 2020 It could be, I'm not in the position to say for sure as I never played with auto stuff back then, I do remember that a couple of people I knew that turned auto cars to 5 speed cars had all kinds of fuckey issues like that but I don't really remember the solution Hey Thom, I thought I would start with the small stuff and work up.I tried to get it to idle lower with j3 chip in or without. No difference.So I then stripped everything off the intake manifold, checked/replaced every hose. Checked everywhere for leaks.Tested and fitted an air charge sensor, cleaned the throttle body and the ISC.Changed the TPS and ISC.Checked all the wiring and Earths.Reassembled and torqued to spec.Set the base idle to 500-550 with idle speed controller disconnected.Tried EL ecu alone, then EL ecu with j3.Multiple times.It's doing exactly the same as it was in the first place. Idling at 1000-1100rpm.No change.I have been on it all day and got nowhere.Will have another try tomorrow and if no go, lower the fuel pressure and put the ED ecu back in.So much for plug and play EL ecu....Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thom 6,650 Posted October 13, 2020 Hey Thom, I thought I would start with the small stuff and work up.I tried to get it to idle lower with j3 chip in or without. No difference.So I then stripped everything off the intake manifold, checked/replaced every hose. Checked everywhere for leaks.Tested and fitted an air charge sensor, cleaned the throttle body and the ISC.Changed the TPS and ISC.Checked all the wiring and Earths.Reassembled and torqued to spec.Set the base idle to 500-550 with idle speed controller disconnected.Tried EL ecu alone, then EL ecu with j3.Multiple times.It's doing exactly the same as it was in the first place. Idling at 1000-1100rpm.No change.I have been on it all day and got nowhere.Will have another try tomorrow and if no go, lower the fuel pressure and put the ED ecu back in.So much for plug and play EL ecu....Sent from my S21 using TapatalkAre you trying to set it up with locked timing or ecu control? If el uses timing as well as the isc to control idle then that might be giving you problems 1 Outback Jack reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outback Jack 6,352 Posted October 13, 2020 Are you trying to set it up with locked timing or ecu control? If el uses timing as well as the isc to control idle then that might be giving you problems Nah mate, I got rid of the locked timing and went back to ecu control when I had the ED ecu in.You know its funny you mentioned an XH TPS might be needed, because the guy who sold me the EL XR6 ecu had it in an XH XR6, and reakoned it ran great.Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk 1 gerg reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted October 13, 2020 That might be you clue right there Jack, sounds like you're into something Sent from my CPH1920 using Tapatalk 1 Outback Jack reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outback Jack 6,352 Posted October 14, 2020 That might be you clue right there Jack, sounds like you're into something Sent from my CPH1920 using Tapatalk Yeah, not sure Gerg. The TPS in XH and XG should be the same, but his was an XH XR6 and not sure if they run a BBM or not. Jason at t.i. performance seems to think it's a vaccum leak. I will check the PCV valve this morning, it's the only thing I haven't checked.It's not the j3 chip, I have the problem on EL ecu with no chip inserted. It's just strange, I even put my hand in the throttle body to restrict airflow and it still idled at 1000-1100rpm. It's like the ECU is making the high idle thru the ISC, like it can't find a reference point so it idles up.I will find the problem today. If it's not a vaccum leak, then it's got to be a TPS problem which is either it not being able to calibrate to the TPS because of no goose test/calibration or TPS values differ on actual TPS.Just a matter of checking all possibilities. Last thing, that I'm hoping it's not, is a dud ECU. That would suck, cause it cost me $105 and had to come from QLD.But it is a possibility. Just having a Cuppa, then back at it...Again.... Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outback Jack 6,352 Posted October 14, 2020 OK, after going over the whole ute, I found the problem.I was wondering why the EL XR6 ecu wouldn't go into diagnostic mode properly or raise the idle when I bridged the pins for timing.When I was cleaning the EL XR6 ecu up, I used a brass wire brush to clean the pins in the top of the ecu.Now I didn't notice at the time as the wires are tiny, but some had broken off the brush and got stuck in the top around the pins, making little bridges between some pins. Must of been the TPS input and something else.After spending all day on it, was the last thing I checked after putting the ED ecu in to bridge connections and check the timing. That worked OK, so I knew something was up.I was about to put the EL ecu back in, when I saw what I thought was a few lil hairs or something in the connector.Turns out it was the brass wires that had snapped off and got lodged in there.Few were touching between 2 pins.I cleaned it all out, plugged the ECU in.....Straight to 700rpm idle.Put code reader on, flicked switch to ON, revs rise as they should.Bridge the connectors to do base timing, works perfect.DOH!I may not have escaped unscathed though....... I ran the Code reader in KOEO and most codes I got were for things the XG doesn't have- Cooling fan fault codes 791,792,777,778.Serial link to dash fault783BBM fault795But the one that is worrying me is.511-Internal EEC module fault- Replace.The ute idles fine, seems to drive OK. It could be a fault it had before I got it or maybe I have damaged it.I tried to clear the codes, but it keeps coming up.So I may be up for a new ECU...Lesson learnt, no brass wire brushes near electronics...Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk 1 1 gerg and deankxf reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ando81 2,949 Posted October 14, 2020 I’m glad you found the problem but I’m worried about the possible damage I wonder if it’ll perform ok with the new ecu now that it’s reading correctly and doing everything ok. 1 Outback Jack reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outback Jack 6,352 Posted October 14, 2020 That's the big question Ando.I think I might pop the ED ecu back in and lower the fuel pressure, at least I know it's safe, then I can grab another EL ecu when I go see my mate and test it with my code reader before purchasing.Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outback Jack 6,352 Posted October 14, 2020 Just emailed Jason Bolger from t.i. performance and asked if when the EL ecu is j3 chipped will it throw a 511 code?Its completely Normal with a j3 chip fitted.Happy Days! Thought I'd fried the ECU. Phew!Problem solved.Oh and BIG thanks to Jason from t.i. performance for his awesome service, he has helped me through by answering any questions I had, and even when it wasn't his j3 chip at fault, it was ECU related he still offered advice and support.That's earns his sticker a place on my ute.Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk 3 SPArKy_Dave, gerg and Thom reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites