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Outback Jack

EL ecu upgrade to EA-ED or XG.

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Hi Guys default_smile.png
Was looking for an answer to a question about the above upgrade.
I have an XG manual Outback running a 3DAC ED ecu which I want to upgrade to a 6TAC EL XR6 manual ecu.
Now I know I might have to tweak the fuel pressure a bit to suit the xr6 tune but that should be it as I have a mild cam that should suit the tune.
Apparently its just plug and play.
 
The question I have is EA-ED and XG have 10 degrees BTDC base timing and as far as I know EL have base timing at 0 degrees or TDC.
 
So do I change the timing on my motor to match ecu or does it stay the same?
 
Also, if I have locked timing at 30 degrees BTDC, do I have to change that setting?
 
Is there anything else to change or watch out for? I am rocking a clutch fan and log manifold, so should be no need for pin out changes/wires for thermos or bbm.
 
Cheers fellas,
 
Outback Jack.
 
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Follow this link below. it will give you all the details you need. 

 

You will need a J3 chip, and they supply them. 

When you order the J3, they will ask for what cam specs you are running. The can delete the BBM control so it wont matter that you are running a log manifold. all of that. they will custom write you a tune onto the chip. 

 

I have just done EL injection conversion on my XF with the crossflow. and for a tired old 335000km crossflow, it made a world of difference. 

 

https://www.tiperformance.com.au/knowledge-base/fitting-an-el-ecu-to-an-ea-ed-falcon/

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Yeah I can see you needing to get a j3 chip for an XF crossy conversion to EL ecu but ED to EL is just a faster processor and a few extras like thermo fans etc.

You have to pin out for the BBM separately, which I don't need. Its not active unless you wire it up.

 

I have already read all the t.I.performance stuff and if basically says EL ecu is plug and play with no j3 into EA-ED and XG.

My question was more to do with base timing and making sure that is correct and affect of locked timing on the EL ecu.

 

Later I will get a j3 but I got a 6TAC coming which is an XR6 EL ecu, so I want to run that tune first and see if it matches my cam, head shave and 3 angle valve job. Should be close.

 

Did you read the info from t.i.performance properly Panko?

Think you will find it states j3 is optional.

 

 

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I bought a j3 chip n programme for my EA, cost me $400, after I fitted it to my el ecu, it started n I can drive it, however when I msg ti performance, they said chip was sent with no tune, wtf did I pay for, I msgd them a Jason bolger emailed me back, I explained what had happened, he basically told me I need to buy a tune n download it myself, ffs

I couldn't make head nor tales of his emails actually,

 

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That's no good Revhead.

I thought the tune came loaded on the j3 ready to roll.

 

Anyway I think I have the answer to my base timing question.

Base timing for EA-ED or XG is 10 degrees BTDC.

Base timing for EL is 0 degrees or TDC.

 

If you are putting an EL ecu into an EA-ED or XG you need to:

 

1. Get the engine to operating temp.

 

2. Connect a timing light and put the original EA-ED or XG ecu into diagnostic mode with bridging wire.

 

3. Set the base timing to TDC or 0 degrees instead of the normal 10 degrees BTDC base timing.

 

4. Stop engine, unplug diagnostic mode bridging wire.

Connect new EL ecu.

 

5. Start engine and should run spot on.

 

Don't know why that info is not on the t.i. performance site with the upgrade info . Otherwise your running at 10 degrees advanced on the EL ecu.

 

Thanks to Thom, Ozy mechanic and me for figuring it out.

 

4L SOHC rule!

 

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Outback Jack said:

Yeah I can see you needing to get a j3 chip for an XF crossy conversion to EL ecu but ED to EL is just a faster processor and a few extras like thermo fans etc.

You have to pin out for the BBM separately, which I don't need. Its not active unless you wire it up.

 

I have already read all the t.I.performance stuff and if basically says EL ecu is plug and play with no j3 into EA-ED and XG.

My question was more to do with base timing and making sure that is correct and affect of locked timing on the EL ecu.

 

Later I will get a j3 but I got a 6TAC coming which is an XR6 EL ecu, so I want to run that tune first and see if it matches my cam, head shave and 3 angle valve job. Should be close.

 

Did you read the info from t.i.performance properly Panko?

Think you will find it states j3 is optional.

 

 

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The way I interpreted it is that you need the J3 to remove feature the EL computer runs that you don’t need on earlier cars. But hey, I don’t own an E series, so I clearly interpreted that wrong. 
Yes I read the information correctly. 
 


@revhead I believe if you buy the chip and tuner as a package they send you a blank chip to write your own tune. 
 

Mine came with the tune loaded to suit the engine specs I had given. Obviously they can’t get it 100% without having it on a dyno or a way to log the AFRs. 

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The way I interpreted it is that you need the J3 to remove feature the EL computer runs that you don’t need on earlier cars. But hey, I don’t own an E series, so I clearly interpreted that wrong. 
Yes I read the information correctly. 
 

[mention=70]revhead[/mention] I believe if you buy the chip and tuner as a package they send you a blank chip to write your own tune. 
 
Mine came with the tune loaded to suit the engine specs I had given. Obviously they can’t get it 100% without having it on a dyno or a way to log the AFRs. 
Thing is I have no specs when I bought my running gear, except a load of shit, told to me by the seller, also I don't have $400 to pay them for their tune, on top of paying $400 already, I might have a mate who will put his tune onto my chip

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1 hour ago, revhead said:

Thing is I have no specs when I bought my running gear, except a load of shit, told to me by the seller, also I don't have $400 to pay them for their tune, on top of paying $400 already, I might have a mate who will put his tune onto my chip

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Thats ok. 

 

I was back and forth with Jason in emails for months before buying the chip. Im not taking sides here, but once i understood how it worked and i was confident going down that track. 

 

I get you didn't have any information to tell them, but i think the assumption is that if you buy the chip reader/programmer, you are going to do your own custom tune. If you can start the car and drive it around ok, then it has a base tune on there. if it had nothing the car wouldn't run very well id imagine. 

 

I only ordered the chip alone. With a basic map or tune loaded onto it, off the information I gave him. Jason has a set of base templates for 4L OHC engines to work off, then you provide what information you have, and they roughly alter AFRs in the tune to suit the information you have provided, from a dead stock 4L map. He doesn't have templates for a crossflow, so works off the volumetric figures of a 4L. currently mine runs a bit rich, however I also don't have a functioning ISC valve. which is my own fault. 

 

Like i said, im not taking sides here. It just seems there might have been a miscommunication or something. 

Unfortunately for me, because I don't have the brains to tune the J3, nor do I own a PC (Mac user here. only way in my line of work) I can't tune the car myself. I also cant data log anyway, as i have no way of doing it without a wideband o2. So ill have to pay someone to dyno tune it when the new engine goes in, or take the car back to Jason and get him to do it himself. I live not far from him in Melbourne. 

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I bought a j3 chip n programme for my EA, cost me $400, after I fitted it to my el ecu, it started n I can drive it, however when I msg ti performance, they said chip was sent with no tune, wtf did I pay for, I msgd them a Jason bolger emailed me back, I explained what had happened, he basically told me I need to buy a tune n download it myself, ffs

I couldn't make head nor tales of his emails actually,

 

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Hey Revhead,

Maybe try that base timing trick with your EA mate. You are probably running at 10 degrees advance without knowing it. If there is no tune on the j3 then your just running off the standard EL ecu.

Follow the steps I listed above and see if it runs and idles a bit nicer.

 

 

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The way I interpreted it is that you need the J3 to remove feature the EL computer runs that you don’t need on earlier cars. But hey, I don’t own an E series, so I clearly interpreted that wrong. 
Yes I read the information correctly. 
 

[mention=70]revhead[/mention] I believe if you buy the chip and tuner as a package they send you a blank chip to write your own tune. 
 
Mine came with the tune loaded to suit the engine specs I had given. Obviously they can’t get it 100% without having it on a dyno or a way to log the AFRs. 
The only thing that will happen is the EL ecu will throw error codes on the code reader for the things not connected at worst, but there is nothing that should affect the way the ECU performs or throw it into Limp Home Mode.

The j3 will stop it throwing error codes for things not needed by switching them off, that is all.
But the j3 is a good tuning tool for modified engines and to get nice fuel maps etc.

I will redo the base timing when I get my EL XR6 ecu and see how it goes, but I bet it runs sweet.
XH and EL ECUs are very similar.
My mate has an XH ecu in an XG and that goes fine and was just chucked in.

He runs locked timing at 30 degrees+ but because of the base timing being set up for the XG ecu at 10 degrees btdc, it is actually now 40 degrees+ advanced using the XH ecu.

This explains why he can only run 98 premium and cant wind in any more timing or it pings it's arse off.


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The only thing that will happen is the EL ecu will throw error codes on the code reader for the things not connected at worst, but there is nothing that should affect the way the ECU performs or throw it into Limp Home Mode.

The j3 will stop it throwing error codes for things not needed by switching them off, that is all.
But the j3 is a good tuning tool for modified engines and to get nice fuel maps etc.

I will redo the base timing when I get my EL XR6 ecu and see how it goes, but I bet it runs sweet.
XH and EL ECUs are very similar.
My mate has an XH ecu in an XG and that goes fine and was just chucked in.

He runs locked timing at 30 degrees+ but because of the base timing being set up for the XG ecu at 10 degrees btdc, it is actually now 40 degrees+ advanced using the XH ecu.

This explains why he can only run 98 premium and cant wind in any more timing or it pings it's arse off.


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Thing is, before I put all this running gear in my ea, it ran perfectly, in the eb xr6 it was in now its in my ea, it's rich as, like 40 litres to do 20 ks,

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Thing is, before I put all this running gear in my ea, it ran perfectly, in the eb xr6 it was in now its in my ea, it's rich as, like 40 litres to do 20 ks,

 

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Yeah something's not right there Revhead. That's a shitload of fuel your going through. O2 sensor OK? ECU will richen up the mix if it detects a lean condition with the O2 sensor. Could be a few things, even fuel reg pressure or faulty map sensor.

Also could be the coolant temp sensor, if it reads too cool, will put car in like an ECU controlled choke mode, which also Richens up the mix.

 

Did you try running the EB's ecu in the EA? That's a straight swap, both run 10degrees BTDC base timing.

 

 

Best of luck mate.

 

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I have been doing some research into the EL ecu change into my XG and I'm just wondering how well it will go with no BBM manifold. I would like to keep my Log one.

If I understand correctly the BBM has long runners for torque under 3,800rpm then switches a vaccum butterfly/solenoid to bypass the long runners and make the route to the head shorter for more top end.
I'm just wondering if it will be OK with the Log Manifold and not cause any problems.

My second concern is the ECU I purchased is an EL XR6 manual 3.45. 6TAC ecu, which suits my Outback specs nicely.
I will have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator fitted by the time the ECU gets here but am unsure where I should set the pressure for the XR6 ecu.
On my standard 4L the fuel pressure regulator is a 250kpa unit but pressure at idle is 200kpa, which is where I set the regulator at. I hope that's correct.

Now I am aware of 2 regulator sizes for EL. One is 275kpa(standard) and other is 300kpa(XR6), but I am unsure as to what the idle pressures are for these.
Would anyone please know the at idle specs. The adjustable reg should do the rest.

Thanks, Outback Jack.




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Ok, my ute is now running an EL XR6 ecu and stage 2 j3 chip tune, going well.
I am currently installing Tech Edge Wideband O2 and Controller.

Just checking for VREF voltage on the EL ecu pinouts. On EB/ED it is PIN 26- +5V REF but on EL PIN is listed as not in use.
This +5V REF is used by the MAP sensor and the TPS, so it is needed.
Will let you know how I go.

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4 hours ago, Outback Jack said:

Just tested Orange/Black wire at ECU.
5V, so PIN 26 is still the +5V REF pin on an EL ecu, even though its not listed on the PIN OUTS for EL.
Done.

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yep it is. 

 

thats how I was able to run an EL ECU in my XF without modifying the wiring. because it uses the same 5v VREF. 

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