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Electrifying a Gasoline engine (converting an ICE to plugin hybrid)

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Hi all,

 

With the advent of EVs and PHEVs, I was just wondering what are your thoughts on converting a falcon to run off electricity/solar panels in a home.

My idea is to put a battery pack in the boot and use the electricity from the battery to power an HHO generator so that the engine can run off hydrogen on demand.

Yes I know, HHO generator kits are regarded as "snake oil", but!, using this method allows the car to run off electric power since the battery can be "plugged in" for recharging like a PHEV so that electricity (or solar panels on a home) could be used to power the car. Regenerative braking from hybrid technology could also be implemented. One good thing about HHO is that it also produces pure oxygen gas which could be used in a similar fashion like Nitrous oxide.

 

Here are some studies done on hydrogen combustion efficiency compared to gasoline: 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1110016815001714

"The results also showed 10% increment in the gasoline engine thermal efficiency (ie. improved power kw per unit of heat), 34% reduction in fuel consumption, 18% reduction in CO"

 

https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/55789156.pdf

this one shows improved BTE over gasoline combustion

 

thoughts?

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You are still limited by the inefficiency of internal combustion.

 

You would have to do some radical work to the engine to get the compression up to take advantage of the hydrogen fuel.

 

And above all else, good luck getting it all engineered for our roads. A car with mobile hydrogen and oxygen generators is a bomb on wheels, literally.

 

Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

 

 

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apparently there is a company in the US that has done this to retrofit a truck and made it work on electric

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2018/2/16/16926950/hydrogen-fuel-technology-economy-hytech-storage

 

quote:

"Efficient electrolysis plus efficient hydride storage means that Hy-Tech’s retrofit will produce a zero-emissions vehicle (ZEV) with an average of 300 miles range, comparable to high-end electric vehicles but able to work in any existing vehicle. When I toured HyTech’s Redmond facility, Johnson drove me to lunch in a giant Ford Raptor pickup truck running on hydrogen."

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I got through most of the article, I'll catch the rest later, but if I did the stock market I'd be on that company so fast

As for converting I'd be looking at buying his "kit" if at all possible. From what I've read there his solutions are properly tested and thought out so why try to reinvent them in a diy fashion. There's too much science involved to get it right first go and theoretically if you get it wrong... Well there goes the neighbourhood.

I like it. A LOT!! He's got his head screwed on right in that zero- emissions and zero carbon pipe dreams won't happen in the real world without an in between step. He's not keen on having combustion engines in the long term but even I get that his view point is about the most effective way to use the tech. He's not against the ICE and the second tier of the plan makes it easy to have your cake and eat it too. Just think about it.... A zero carbon, green emissions, Cleveland. He'll help me stay in business by the sound of it and I'd run my truck on it if I could.

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On 11/14/2019 at 2:44 PM, 2redrovers said:

so why try to reinvent them in a diy fashion.

Because my goal is slightly different - I'm only trying to boost performance(and fuel savings too) rather than completely converting my car to purely run on Hydrogen or electricity alone (like what he has done to the truck). Basically I want a triple/quad fuel car - LPG/Hydrogen/electric/petrol

 

I have a BA engine with a PCV valve in order to redirect nitrous oxide gases (from the pure oxygen byproduct of electrolysis reacting with nitrogen in air) back into the intake - the breakdown of N2O is exothermic whilst nitrogen dioxide helps speed up combustion rate, and this is how the efficiency and performance gains are achieved. Due to the complexity of different engine management systems, the fuel saving effects are not noticeable at first because the ECU takes time to learn to adjust to the new fuel mixture, hence HHO systems will generally fail to achieve the claimed results in the various testing that have been done. What people fail to realise, is that the claimed results are not actually due to Hydrogen(although it does help break down nitrous into water and nitrogen gas) but due to the pure Oxygen gas that is produced as a byproduct of the electrolysis, which when used in an engine with a PCV valve could redirect the extra Nitrous in the exhaust gases back into the combustion chambers. (TLDR: Basically, the extra O in HHO is pure oxygen which when combined with a PCV valve could achieve a Nitrous effect due to the 70% Nitrogen in the atmosphere. Of course, the H2 gas also burns with oxygen in the air in the same way as LPG, but it's not just the Hydrogen that plays a role but also the byproduct oxygen that boosts performance.)

 

So im hoping to just hook up a HHO kit with a rechargeable lithium battery and pipe it into the intake like with my existing LPG system....seems simple enough

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that works too i guess.....although it needs a better transmission

if BAs become a classic and there is nowhere to fill up LPG then i'll do the crate motor.....(the thing is the Barra engine is like the pride of Australia though....)

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The thing with going full electric is that it's not suited to Australian conditions because our electricity mostly (like 85%) comes from coal (at least in Victoria where I live) so it's not good for the environment to use 100% EV in Victoria (Carbon emissions are about 9kg/100km for an EV, which I assume would be higher than any petrol car running under 9L/100km edit: 5L/100km). It would only be usefull if all our electricity comes from solar (which is going to be difficult)

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It is more efficient to charge an electric car with a diesel generator than to put that diesel in the most efficient diesel vehicle and drive the same distance. 

 

There is no valid argument against electric cars from an efficency or environmental standpoint. Even if 100% of the energy that powers them comes from coal.

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7 hours ago, Crazy2287 said:

It is more efficient to charge an electric car with a diesel generator than to put that diesel in the most efficient diesel vehicle and drive the same distance. 

 

There is no valid argument against electric cars from an efficency or environmental standpoint. Even if 100% of the energy that powers them comes from coal.

 

Yes this is true for the typical cars. But when you consider the study that I posted, it would seem that the average ICE car can have its efficiency enhanced quite abit. 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1110016815001714

"The results also showed 10% increment in the gasoline engine thermal efficiency (ie. improved power kw per unit of heat), 34% reduction in fuel consumption, 18% reduction in CO"

 

Euro 6 CO2 emissions is 130g/km or 13kg/100km which is equivalent to a tesla model 3 charged with 100% coal (about 1kg/KWh). The study I posted did not investigate compression ratio/ignition timing/tune etc. So If you consider how much potential for boosting efficiency of ICE i think in the end a maximally optimized ICE would be close to an EV in terms of efficiency and emissions (using the current 85% coal). And then there is considering Garrett also releasing an electric turbo which acts as a second alternator and has no turbo lag....boosts efficiency further (basically converts a normal car into a turbo hybrid)

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Another argument I have against electric cars is that they got no gears only 1 gear, although I have come up with a design where multiple rotors are in the same motor with a position shifting stator(like a gearbox) which allows it to be a multi speed electric motor, but this design has not been implemented in any of the crate motors that I've seen. Currently the closest thing ive seen for cars is this https://www.todaystrucking.com/4-speed-eaton-transmission-for-class-7-8-electric-vehicles/

 

But even with gears i'm still not too convinced about electric because (my estimate) it would take decades to even transition to 50% coal (how realistic would it be for the whole country to have solar panels + batteries everywhere on every building AND charging stations in front of each house on every street and at every parking spot in apartment complexs? And then consider the government is all about saving industry and boosting competition etc...it would seem that the future would be like a multi energy market with solar/hydrogen/gas/ethanol/diesel/petrol/coal)

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Those single gear electric cars can reach speeds in excess of 300km and sprint 0-100 in under 3 seconds. 

 

Ice is a dieing tech and we should let it die. There is no fathomable way it can match a pure ev for efficency. 

 

With Australia's land mass and location we would have no issue at all finding the space to erect the required solar arrays to power the country. 

 

However, imo we should be building nuclear power generators to fill the gap between now and when solar and wind become fully integrated. Australia's aversion to nuclear is just silly. 

 

And as for charging stations everywhere? Yes please. 

But it's really a non issue. Charging times are decreasing rapidly as tech improves. It will be no more inconvenient to stopping at the servo for 10minutes. No need to have charging stations littering the street. There would be charging lots just like there are servos for people whom don't have their own garage space. 

 

But this is all assuming cars are not fully autonomous.in which case car ownership will die and be left to the rich and the hobbiests. 

 

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58 minutes ago, Crazy2287 said:

Those single gear electric cars can reach speeds in excess of 300km and sprint 0-100 in under 3 seconds. 

Which one? The existing ones are software limited to about 250km/h because they overheat the motor and kill the battery at 300ks. I think you are talking about the 2020 roadster which isn't out yet (not sure if that one has only 1 gear or not but it definitely has the huge double battery pack with 200 KWh).

58 minutes ago, Crazy2287 said:

It will be no more inconvenient to stopping at the servo for 10minutes.

 

How long do you think it will take for battery technology to reach the capability of a 10min charging at servo? (Actually it is achievable right now if you only charge to like 30%. So if you had a very efficient transmission and a very small motor and decent size battery you could do a 5-10min charge that gives 300km-400km range. But you wont get 0-100 in 3 sec with this kind of EV)

58 minutes ago, Crazy2287 said:

But this is all assuming cars are not fully autonomous.

 

Full autonomous is still decades away I think. There's too many things which could go wrong (Personally I wouldn't trust a self driving car).

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You're correct. It's, 250ish for Tesla and 260ish for Porsche. Rimac get north of 300 but has a 2 speed rear. Anyway, my point remains, very few people use a car north of 250kph.

I am hopeful for battery tech. I do expect charging times in the 0-80% for a sub 100kwh battery to realistically reach sub 10min and to offer north of 400km range within the next 10 years. Porsche can already do that in 15min but at 300mile peak range it is probably a bit under the 400km. So I think 10 years is very conservative.

 

I'd trust an autonomous car more than 50% of people whom hold a licence. And am hopeful that we can cancel licences and start jamming the really shitty drivers into self driving cars within the next 5 years. Although I'm been a bit too optimistic that the cost of such cars will be cheap enough by that stage for people to afford them. Which is gonna take a lot longer I think. 

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Big oil and auto has already held the electric car back 15 years.  remember when they were temporarily released in the early 2000? There's a whole thing about that. But you could easily argue that battery tech may have been sufficient much earlier then that. But it would probably be hard to pinpoint what time it might have been viable since there is evidence of big oil and auto crushing the tech to prevent the advancement of any competition, and who knows how far back that goes. maby as far as the 1900's if you really wanted to get into the conspiracy theory.

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