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crossflow balancer

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Hi guys, 

 

I have a freshly built crossflow ive purchased for my wagon. I just need to purchase a few bits to finish it off

 

It didnt come with a balancer. 

 

What does everyone recommend for a new balancer? 

Its running a Crow 14892 Camshaft, which is 215 @ .50 for both intake and exhaust, power from 1800 - 4500rpm. 

ACL pitons

balanced

 

Now im aware that if the engine has been balanced, and it hasnt come with a balancer, would that mean I need to rebalance the engine? 

 

TIA

 

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xflows are internally balanced so not really an issue, just a good stock one will do, Or the HB1021N is a XF stock replacement (suits 4 bolt P/S pulley) or PB1021ST for a street series, if a 3 bolt P/S pulley then HB1007N or PB1007ST(street),

I have the PB1021ST in my XF but it does make power to 6000ish

 

 

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1 minute ago, FORD_MAN said:

xflows are internally balanced so not really an issue, just a good stock one will do, Or the HB1021N is a XF stock replacement (suits 4 bolt P/S pulley) or PB1021ST for a street series, if a 3 bolt P/S pulley then HB1007N or PB1007ST(street),

I have the PB1021ST in my XF but it does make power to 6000ish

 

 

 

Ok that makes me feel a little better. 

Ill tend to go the better parts just for peace of mind. 

Ill end up running stronger push rods even though i dont necessarily need them.  

 

It appears to also have adjustable timing gear. it is double row timing chain. 

I didnt build the engine, bought it built. 

 

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1 minute ago, FORD_MAN said:

knowing soft xflow pushrods, you'll want at least hardened ones,

timing gears & chain is common upgrade, single row chain isn't the best & stretch, my XF ute's was worn out & had only done 182,000km

 

@CHESTNUTXE Yes Romac 0222(XF) 0217(XE),

yeah was just looking at Crow hardened rods. 

 

yep. the engine was built for straight LPG turbo. but im going to be running it n/a for a while. 

the timing gear year is double row chain, and i noticed tonight it has what looks like timing marks stamped into it with locating slots all the way around it at 2 degree increments + and - 

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Just a thought on Balancers, does anyone know if the Falcon 6 cylinder Balancers are all the same.  I know the belt type and reluctors are different,  but can a Barra or OHC fit on a xflow? Is the seal area the same size and crank snout the same between all of the Aussie 6’s?

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Looking up power bond balancer PB1021ST (XF) & PB1432ST (EF) crank bore both 31.71mm Nose diamiter (seal ID) 44.45mm(XF) 44.43mm(EF) OD 174.5/172.5mm width 64.8mm/74mm

as far as I know size is same for prexflow 250 as xflow,

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Hi All,

 

Long time lurker, first time poster!

 

Firstly, this is one of the best forums around for info on the X Series Falcons for the guys across the ditch in NZ.

 

I've got myself an XF after nearly 20 years of not owning one...marriage, kids and divorces certainly put pay to having any sort of toys!

 

Anyway, thought i'd ask on here as this is the closest thread I could find relating to my question.

 

I have rebuilt the engine, specs below:

- 84da block std bore

- Std 28cc (odd) pistions with Std rods

- 218 -218 @50', 110 LSA, 495 lift  HYD

- C2 head - cleaned up, smoothed the intake and exhaust - polished the intake. Cleaned up the knob in the bowl to ease pinging. 

- 9.5:1 comp

- Yella Terra Street Terra roller rockers

- Modifying the water pump to go electric

- Baffeling the sump by cutting an EF one apart

- T5 that will eventually be mated up to an EF 3.45:1 diff

 

Now for the questions:

- Do I need a thermostat if going electric water pump?

 

- I want to modify the PS to the Astra pump and alternator setup - Can an EF 96DA harmonic balancer be used on the 84DA crank? I'm hoping yes so that I can use the astra alternator with the serpintine belt and do away with the vee. My theory is that the I6's are all neutral balance, so the balancer, provided that it is neutral balance (96DA assumed to be neutral), should be fine given that the snout size etc is exactly the same. From what I can tell there are 2 differances - the height of the snout compared to the 84DA balancer and the weight is approx 650grams heavier.

 

If I'm crazy and barking up the wrong tree, please tell me! 

 

Cheers guys

 

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Hi All,
 
Long time lurker, first time poster!
 
Firstly, this is one of the best forums around for info on the X Series Falcons for the guys across the ditch in NZ.
 
I've got myself an XF after nearly 20 years of not owning one...marriage, kids and divorces certainly put pay to having any sort of toys!
 
Anyway, thought i'd ask on here as this is the closest thread I could find relating to my question.
 
I have rebuilt the engine, specs below:
- 84da block std bore
- Std 28cc (odd) pistions with Std rods
- 218 -218 @50', 110 LSA, 495 lift  HYD
- C2 head - cleaned up, smoothed the intake and exhaust - polished the intake. Cleaned up the knob in the bowl to ease pinging. 
- 9.5:1 comp
- Yella Terra Street Terra roller rockers
- Modifying the water pump to go electric
- Baffeling the sump by cutting an EF one apart
- T5 that will eventually be mated up to an EF 3.45:1 diff
 
Now for the questions:
- Do I need a thermostat if going electric water pump?
 
- I want to modify the PS to the Astra pump and alternator setup - Can an EF 96DA harmonic balancer be used on the 84DA crank? I'm hoping yes so that I can use the astra alternator with the serpintine belt and do away with the vee. My theory is that the I6's are all neutral balance, so the balancer, provided that it is neutral balance (96DA assumed to be neutral), should be fine given that the snout size etc is exactly the same. From what I can tell there are 2 differances - the height of the snout compared to the 84DA balancer and the weight is approx 650grams heavier.
 
If I'm crazy and barking up the wrong tree, please tell me! 
 
Cheers guys
 

@Thom might be able to chime in here, he has a vast knowledge of the OHCs and crossys, my guess is a tentative yes for compatibility of balancers, as some folks in the past have fitted EF cranks to Crossy blocks but check timing case clearance and timing pointers, etc. Yes inline 6s are neutral balance, you can actually use a Windsor 157 tooth flywheel on them if they are neutral type.

I don't think you run thermostats with electric water pumps as they'd need to sense the water temp accurately without any hindrance to flow, etc and they actually take care of the temp via said sensor and the controller that comes with it.

Sounds like a stout little motor there, should be nice and streetable with good midrange punch. What carby are you running?

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Hi Gerg

Thanks for that.

Engine should be a bit of fun, mainly did it up just to reacquaint myself with them and build one up myself. Probably haven't done everything I should have, but is a bit of an experiment and looking to build another in the near future and tossing up between a strong N/A or Turbo.

As for carby, 350 holley on a Cain manifold. We don't get a lot of aftermarket gear over here, so was looking at Aussie Speed 4 barrel manifold and I have a 465 vac sec carb lying around...thought this might be better once I get it running? Also, ignition is hall effect with msd 6al programmable unit.

A few pics of the head I mucked around with.2fdfc0a41c9f9abba731d3d3e58f7e86.jpg07085190e3b2c178d9a9aa03f9543aae.jpg342a7730d0bf6c1d53d3b79617449d28.jpg

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Hi Gerg

Thanks for that.

Engine should be a bit of fun, mainly did it up just to reacquaint myself with them and build one up myself. Probably haven't done everything I should have, but is a bit of an experiment and looking to build another in the near future and tossing up between a strong N/A or Turbo.

As for carby, 350 holley on a Cain manifold. We don't get a lot of aftermarket gear over here, so was looking at Aussie Speed 4 barrel manifold and I have a 465 vac sec carb lying around...thought this might be better once I get it running? Also, ignition is hall effect with msd 6al programmable unit.

A few pics of the head I mucked around with.2fdfc0a41c9f9abba731d3d3e58f7e86.jpg07085190e3b2c178d9a9aa03f9543aae.jpg342a7730d0bf6c1d53d3b79617449d28.jpg

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465 is pretty spot-on for a healthy crossy, good thing too about vac sec is that they only open when the primaries are maxed out and only as far as they need to, so you'd call it a variable, on-demand system.

Another thing to remember is that 2 barrel carbies are rated at double the pressure drop of 4 barrels, (3" vs 1.5") as the SAE doesn't consider a 2bbl to be a performance carby. So for a 350 to get that CFM rating, they suck twice as hard while on the test bench as they would a 4-barrel to achieve it.

When flowed at the same pressure drop as 4-barrels, 350s flow more like 280cfm. Going by the accepted rule-of-thumb, you take CFM and halve it to get target horsepower.... dunno about you but I think a crossy is good for much more than 140hp.

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From what I've read and seen in this forums, they're good for much more!

I'm hoping for around 140-150rwhp, but really don't know. Hoping you guys would be able to give me a bit of an idea based on your experience.

I will go 4 barrel once I've got it running and enjoyed it over the Xmas break.

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From what I've read and seen in this forums, they're good for much more!

I'm hoping for around 140-150rwhp, but really don't know. Hoping you guys would be able to give me a bit of an idea based on your experience.

I will go 4 barrel once I've got it running and enjoyed it over the Xmas break.

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I think your combo will get pretty close to that, going by that cam spec. They're just an engine, they respond like any other engine does if not doing a full-tilt build. Only then would you need specific knowledge on how to squeeze the absolute most out of it.

They're nice and simple with not many traps to fall into. On a mid-level build such as this, you have good enough bits to have a very sweet engine.

I'd say that the biggest thing holding them back is induction, particularly fuel distribution to cylinders 1 and 6. They are much further away from the carby so at higher rpm, such as above 4500, you start to feel a harshness in it that is basically those cylinders starving for mixture every time it's their turn with the middle ones getting all they want. I noticed this on my Corty when it had a Redline 2 barrel manifold. The end runners each had a nasty sharp turn into the port, which I don't think was a great thing.

The AussieSpeed has oversized end runners that are also more gently curved to try and compensate for this, the result being a much smoother top-end. My old man's EFI XF did not have such harshness up top, owing to the EFI manifold having much better distribution.

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I think your combo will get pretty close to that, going by that cam spec. They're just an engine, they respond like any other engine does if not doing a full-tilt build. Only then would you need specific knowledge on how to squeeze the absolute most out of it.

They're nice and simple with not many traps to fall into. On a mid-level build such as this, you have good enough bits to have a very sweet engine.

I'd say that the biggest thing holding them back is induction, particularly fuel distribution to cylinders 1 and 6. They are much further away from the carby so at higher rpm, such as above 4500, you start to feel a harshness in it that is basically those cylinders starving for mixture every time it's their turn with the middle ones getting all they want. I noticed this on my Corty when it had a Redline 2 barrel manifold. The end runners each had a nasty sharp turn into the port, which I don't think was a great thing.

The AussieSpeed has oversized end runners that are also more gently curved to try and compensate for this, the result being a much smoother top-end. My old man's EFI XF did not have such harshness up top, owing to the EFI manifold having much better distribution.

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I'd be pretty happy with that sort of power given I haven't spent bucket loads on it!

I read that the manifolds weren't the best on a few posts on here. Problem is we have to import everything as there are no outlets in NZ for anything to do with the Xflows. We do get the V8 stuff, so can get clevo rockers and windsor ARP bolts for the rods etc but it's almost cheaper to get them from you guys over the ditch!

I'm hoping the Aussie Speed guys export to us so I can grab a 4 barrel manifold...I've never seen anyone over here with one!



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I'd be pretty happy with that sort of power given I haven't spent bucket loads on it!

I read that the manifolds weren't the best on a few posts on here. Problem is we have to import everything as there are no outlets in NZ for anything to do with the Xflows. We do get the V8 stuff, so can get clevo rockers and windsor ARP bolts for the rods etc but it's almost cheaper to get them from you guys over the ditch!

I'm hoping the Aussie Speed guys export to us so I can grab a 4 barrel manifold...I've never seen anyone over here with one!



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Depending on your level of fab skills, you can cut and shut your own out of an EA CFI manifold, which was what some clued-up speedway racers used to use when there was nothing else around. Still only 2 barrel though, and maybe Weber pattern (not 100% on that) or close at least.

I can only imagine how hard it is over there, it seems hard enough here with all the old models being much harder to find bits for now.

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