fordstu 38 Posted September 24, 2019 I just purchaes a 1998 EL GLi Sapphire that had the axillary shaft replaced but thye couldnt get it going. After doing some research, upon inspection I found that it had an Hybrid/Au timing chain in it( which that had gotten from another engine when they did the axillary shaft swap) and wasnt timed properly. Timing it correctly but it still had trouble starting and would slow rev till about 2k then quickly to 5-5.5k like it should. Let idle and it would die. Wont start, winds over but wont start. Check timing again from scratch and timing marks are out. They have used the Au chain and gears, except crank gear. Would that cause any issues? I can get all the original chain and gears. I am tempted to put a new timing chain kit whilst its apart but want to know regarding the gears of the AU and the EL crank gear matching up? I'm bald already and if it wasnt a drought I probably burnt the thing by now!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bear351c 10,270 Posted September 24, 2019 Wow....... definitely sounds like your timing is out. If you buy a new kit, it should come with new gears and chain. Replace the lot. Can't help you with the hybrid side of things. Maybe @Thom ? 1 fordstu reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fordstu 38 Posted September 24, 2019 Thanks bear651c. Might be the way to go... @SPArKy_Dave is the man apparently!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thom 6,650 Posted September 24, 2019 if it has an au timing gear, put the engine on tdc no 1 (use a bit of wire down the spark plug hole to find tdc don't trust the balancer is correct), on the timing gear you will see a line on one side and a dot on the other line the line up parallel with the rocker rail on the drivers side of the car, if it's an e series gear it will just have a line and no dot, it its e an series gear line it up with the rocker rail on the passenger side of the head, make sure you turn the engine over at least twice with a ratchet or breaker bar before you hit the starter just in case something is still out of whack, you don't want to break any valves or rocker gear 1 2 gerg, fordstu and bear351c reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SPArKy_Dave 8,869 Posted September 24, 2019 Yep, Thom is the OHC mechanical guru. I would prolly get a replacement timing chain set, if things are mismatched? (unless the vehicle has a hybrid engine.) That 'slow at lower revs, then goes well' could be a stuck/non-functional BBM? Make sure the broadband manifold butterflies/actuator is working. 1 fordstu reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fordstu 38 Posted September 24, 2019 11 hours ago, Thom said: if it has an au timing gear, put the engine on tdc no 1 (use a bit of wire down the spark plug hole to find tdc don't trust the balancer is correct), on the timing gear you will see a line on one side and a dot on the other line the line up parallel with the rocker rail on the drivers side of the car, if it's an e series gear it will just have a line and no dot, it its e an series gear line it up with the rocker rail on the passenger side of the head, make sure you turn the engine over at least twice with a ratchet or breaker bar before you hit the starter just in case something is still out of whack, you don't want to break any valves or rocker gear Thanks Thom...done that but my concern is when timing the auxillary shaft with the chain. Ive done it via the links and still having issues. I'm getting all the original gear for this engine and go from there. Dave the dissy is also out of the engine that the auxillary shaft came from so I think that maybe a problem. I have a new dissy ready to go but I will swap drive gears over before I use it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SPArKy_Dave 8,869 Posted September 25, 2019 I'd be surprised if the dizzy, was the cause of the issue. It's just a hall effect sensor/TFI, with E-series, they pretty much operate independently of the ECU. (with the exception of EF's, and AU onwards) The ECU has control of the SPOUT wire, which retards timing by about 10degrees, when de-energised I believe. The SPOUT wire can be disconnected on USA made EEC vehicles, to set the timing. On our Aussie EEC vehicles, they only allow an electronic disconnection via putting the ECU into diagnostic mode, to set timing. From memory, XH/EL's need a 0 degrees BTDC base timing setting. The EA-ED's need 10 degrees BTDC. (in diag mode - ie, SPOUT disconnected) 2 fordstu and Thom reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fordstu 38 Posted September 25, 2019 54 minutes ago, SPArKy_Dave said: I'd be surprised if the dizzy, was the cause of the issue. It's just a hall effect sensor/TFI, with E-series, they pretty much operate independently of the ECU. (with the exception of EF's, and AU onwards) The ECU has control of the SPOUT wire, which retards timing by about 10degrees, when de-energised I believe. The SPOUT wire can be disconnected on USA made EEC vehicles, to set the timing. On our Aussie EEC vehicles, they only allow an electronic disconnection via putting the ECU into diagnostic mode, to set timing. From memory, XH/EL's need a 0 degrees BTDC base timing setting. The EA-ED's need 10 degrees BTDC. (in diag mode - ie, SPOUT disconnected) Thanks Dave. Just trying to get this thing sorted. Rego going to waste. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fordstu 38 Posted September 29, 2019 Looks like the auxiliary shaft is stuffed...must have a bigger issue... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SOHCDriver 30 Posted October 6, 2019 Hybrid EL engines with AU parts are covered in this topic on autofix. https://autofix.com.au/blog/el-falcon-hybrid-engine-camshaft-timing cheers Bill. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites