Groundhangers 4 Posted May 8, 2019 Hi all, first post here but lurking for years. I've been scouring the internet like crazy for the last couple of weeks and its driving me nuts, believe me I've read it all on 302s and I think this site has the most with common sense, so this is where I'll start. I have an F100 302 project atm (1974) and I after a little advice. Now, I've done a few nut and bolt restorations over the years such as a MkII Cortina, HQ Statesman, HZ 1 tonner a couple of 70s caravans and 70s motorcycles but this is my first Ford V8, which I know very little about. Wasn't my first choice as I was looking for an XD or similar Fairlane model but the wife has a bit of a soft spot for the old pick ups and one happened along at a good price and to save any arguments I wasnt going to be the fool and took advantage of her blessing. Theres is quite a bit of work in it, about 18mths or so depending on cash flow but im only going to use it as a stepping stone to the next project and the missus can drive it where ever she wants for 6 mths before it gets sold. After some research I've found that I have a 302 Cleveland engine with 2v heads that came out of a 1972 Fairlane, C4 with 3L50 on the diff tag (is that 3.5 LS diff?) It starts easy, goes ok but only has and average of 125 lb compression throughout. From what Ive read 150 to 180 is desirable. So from that I want to make the engine a little more appealing to the next buyer and overhaul it. After research I get the picture to leave the bottom end alone and beef up the top just to add some nice tone and a bit of clout. So I want to do a little machining on the block and get it all nice and tight with some new pistons and bearings. ( Is there a standard fail safe system for this regarding machining and parts, keeping costs down) I'm going to install mild cam but I'm not sure if I should be buying for example a full kit from Crow/ individual parts or buy new heads all together? I'm not really into spending 2.6k on the heads, thats out! so if I can save 400$ here and 200$ there that's where I'm at. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Hangloose Greg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bear351c 10,270 Posted May 8, 2019 Hey Greg, welcome aboard the forum. If you're going to machine the block, it's time for a 351 crank and rods.! The 302 was just a detuned 351 (basically) so the original form of the engine has all the R&D specs. Keep the closed chamber heads, but chamfer the edge of the combustion chamber about 8mm wide, to lower the compression ratio. New pistons and rings to suit your rebore, and a full gasket set, jobs done. You and the wife will be very happy with the power increase, the noise, and the resale will be more desirable. Cheers. Did I mention the noise...? Yes, indeed, cant beat it... 3 351XD_Fairmont, Thom and 2redrovers reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BGDAV 1,873 Posted May 8, 2019 post up some pics of the effy! ive got a 76 my self Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2redrovers 21,400 Posted May 8, 2019 Welcome Greg, I have nothing to add of constructive merit other than I like f trucks and v8s but would like to thank you for noting our common sense quota... Here at Ozfalcon, we have lofty goals in that department and by Jo we'll reach them, how can we fail with this much helium at our disposal? But don't just take my word for it, as 9/10 goat herders agree, I like coffee.. Want a cup? 1 351XD_Fairmont reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Groundhangers 4 Posted May 8, 2019 Thanks guys for exactly what I wanted to here. I've read a little on putting in a 351 crank, 302 rods, journals are different so on so on cant do it bla bla bla but I couldn't find anything to current date past 2004, thanks Bear and thanks 2red for the confirmation cause that makes me a happy camper. If someone could give me a rundown on the process, parts and preferred brands and such for the block upgrade I'd be super stoked, it would make it so much easier as I've limited knowledge, I love engines bu down to the crunch I'm a rust, panel paint guy. I've go a ways to go as I've only just started getting ready for it. I've spent the last 6 weeks building a roof servicing the compressor and collecting tools and parts. I took out the LPG system on Sunday, I just need to make up a stand for the donk and I'll be good to go. Hangloose Greg I'll get some pics going in a new thread Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Groundhangers 4 Posted May 8, 2019 I'll work out posting pics soon enough http://imgur.com/gallery/ZyhyvuB Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deankxf 20,286 Posted May 8, 2019 33 minutes ago, Groundhangers said: I'll work out posting pics soon enough http://imgur.com/gallery/ZyhyvuB Gday Greg, if you have a cleveland 302(more than likely is) then the journals are the same .. windsor is another story i know next to nothing on them. with such low compression, it may have 351 heads fitted?(these were open chamber) and just fitting closed chamber will get it back to "normal" probably. personally with how much it costs to freshen an engine, and the fact you are selling, you may be better off buying a good running secondhand 351 take a pic of the engine, if you use your mobile phone, get the tapatalk app, you can upload directly with it very easy. with a photo of the engine we can know if it's a winsor or clevo, then you'll get a better idea of direction. @BGDAV he's got your bullbar(similar at least) 1 BGDAV reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Groundhangers 4 Posted May 8, 2019 Thanks Dean for all the heads up, especially the tap talk and the pic. Yes been through all the processes to determine the engine specs. It's a 302 Cleveland with 2v closed heads. I managed to match the JG37 to the vehicle I mentioned , i even unscrewed and had a peekaboo behind the sump to find the 302 lettering. 1 deankxf reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deankxf 20,286 Posted May 8, 2019 how do you know they are closed chamber heads? are they off? or is there a code on them? thought the only way to tell would be to have them removed? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Groundhangers 4 Posted May 8, 2019 As I said I've done a lot of research, theres plenty. Even the engine number will give you plenty of info. http://www.aus-ford-uk.co.uk/html/engines2.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deankxf 20,286 Posted May 8, 2019 44 minutes ago, Groundhangers said: As I said I've done a lot of research, theres plenty. Even the engine number will give you plenty of info. http://www.aus-ford-uk.co.uk/html/engines2.html cool, i thought the only way was to take the heads off, a neighbour of mine once had a 302 with 351 heads.. someone had assumed it was a 351 due to rocker cover colour and just bought heads for it and fitted them. seemed to run ok, but probably didn't have much power. he also converted that to a 351 like i did with mine.. using 351 crank and rods. pistons are the same. you can also use the 302 conrods if you get special pistons. this has been a debate for years whether it's worth it... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bear351c 10,270 Posted May 8, 2019 Greg all you will need is a 351 crank, rods and pistons. Closed chamber heads were more or less standard on a 302, and closed or open will both fit, no probs. The closed chamber heads and 351 flat top pistons will give around 11 to 1 compression, which will probably mean you'll need to run on PULP (Premium) and open chamber heads will run on just about anything. You'll need to buy pistons first, and get the block machined to suit them, Federal Mogul, Sealed Power etc.. Hastings or ACL rings..., Double row timing chain set, Rollmaster, JP etc ACL or Felpro full gasket set, and some bearings, Mains, conrods and cam tunnel. Don't rev it over 5 grand and it'll last for years and years. Take it over 6 grand, and the pushrods will bend like licorice, and you'll pop the heads off the valves. Stock heads, stock valves, stock pushrods and lifters, and a Standard volume oil pump. Stay away from cheap chinese/ebay "kits" and anything with Pro and Comp in the brand name. You used to be able to buy a special piston set from ACL, that allowed you to use a 351 crank with 302 (longer) rods, but, don't think they are still made. With the advent of Stroker kits, who would bother. 1 Thom reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bear351c 10,270 Posted May 8, 2019 Here's the ACL blurb......... http://www.acl.com.au/web/acl00056.nsf/a7d23b8ace0d7e31ca2560d3001fb663/e04dcc269dbaf4d24a2566c0007bb33f?OpenDocument Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thom 6,650 Posted May 9, 2019 how do you know they are closed chamber heads? are they off? or is there a code on them? thought the only way to tell would be to have them removed?there are raised bumps on the passenger side head at the front of the block on the deck surface, if it has on bump and two shallows its and open chamber head if it has 2 bumps and 3 shallows it a closed chamber head 3 2redrovers, gerg and deankxf reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Groundhangers 4 Posted May 9, 2019 Thank a heap for the info Bear, it's really put me at ease and will also save me a few bob. The only thing I'm going to add is a mild cam just for a bit of a lump. I'm not fussed on the 6" rods, I'm grateful enough to have the 351 crank, although the ACL tech notes was a good read so thanks again Got myself a standard untouched 351 crank and rods, which I'll give a bit of a polish. Cant wait to start on it, should be fun. Any particular brand of engine paint that holds up I should go for? One last question, recommended carburetor and size? Thanks 1 bear351c reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thom 6,650 Posted May 9, 2019 this is a closed chamber head 2 gerg and bear351c reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bear351c 10,270 Posted May 9, 2019 VHT is fine. Clean block with a toothbrush and some thinners, Dont forget to do rocker covers, waterpump, inlet manifold, timing cover etc.... do them all at once, and the colour will match better. You'll need 2 cans of primer and 2 cans of blue (Engine Enamel) and you can squirt the finished engine with some good quality clear coat. No need to go over 600-650 cfm for a daily driver. Can use a 500, if you have one, but, will make the 351 a bit of a slug (with good fuel economy) LOL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thom 6,650 Posted May 9, 2019 I had a 351 with a stock bottom end, closed chamber heads, comp 268h camshaft (and springs to suit), en edelbrock performer intake with a 600cfm carb and the rest of the engine was stock down to the exhaust manifolds and a twin 2 inch exhaust (the exhaust was too small) it made 230 hp at the tyres in that setup and ran a flat 14 down the 1/4 in my customline with a stock torque converter and 3.5 gears (later on it had roller rockers a torque power dual plane air gap intake and a 2500 stall and ran a 13.5) but that camshaft was a great torquey cam you can run a stock torque converter and valve train with it and it sounded better than a stockie 1 gerg reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted May 9, 2019 All good advice on here, and if you already have that 351 crank, then your answer is already there. No point in going to a peaky, inefficient 302 that will use just as much fuel as the 351 but have to be pedalled harder to go as fast, especially pushing a big truck like that. Much less grunt off the line too. The C4 box will handle the 351 torque so no dramas there. I kept mine a 302 despite having a 351 crank lying around because I'm running a T5 box, which tend to get a bit explodey if 351 torque is fed into them.Machine work on the block will still be expensive. Bank on at least 2 grand for basic block and head reconditioning. You may find that the guides need doing, which add up too. As an example, my heads were all up $1150 with new guides, machined for press-on seals and an extra skim 0.025" on top of the usual head reco service. I also gave them crane springs (120lb seat) and retainers to fit, which were around 300 of eBay.If going mild with the cam, keep the lift below 0.5" and use one that's made to work with the stock rockers and pushrods. If you want a sweet lope, there's a stock speedway grind that Crow do. I think it's 21686 or something, narrow LSA for lots of overlap and midrange punch but lift is kept around the high 480s. I was looking at it for mine but it's a bit much for a daily 302.If you want to have a bit of a go at porting, the heads can benefit from taking off all the horrible sharp bits around the valve guide bosses, throat and short turn. Nothing silly, just make them reasonable instead of disgusting. Exhausts, the guide bosses is really all you touch. Have a look at my thread ”gergwagon revamp". I took some pics of the quick and rough porting job. I have about 3-4 hours in it total. What I did would easily increase flow by 10%, and that's horsepower for nothing. The better your ports, the less cam you need.Keep us posted anywayGerg Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk 1 Thom reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Groundhangers 4 Posted May 9, 2019 Thanks for the fine tuning Gerg. I haven't really added it up but the cost i guess is going to get away. It wont all be happening at once cause theres plenty else to do and I'll just space out the cost as I go. Yes I'll have a go at porting, it would be a shame not to. I'll post up progress as it happens Later 1 gerg reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted May 10, 2019 https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http://www.ozfalcon.com.au/index.php?/topic/7187-2v-head-refresh/&share_tid=7187&share_fid=64023&share_type=tNot in gergwagon thread, it's hereSent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites