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Ando81

Crossflow Lifter Noise

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Hey all, I’ve got a quick question about a noisy lifter in my crossflow. It’s only done about 20000km on a rebuild and it’s developed a lifter noise on cold start up that only lasts about 10-15 seconds. The engine seems to miss slightly until the lifter fills with oil. One day when I changed the oil I managed to leave the old oil filter seal on the block when I put the new filter on I didn’t see it when I screwed the new filter on but as soon as I started the engine I could hear it squirting oil out for 5-10 seconds before shit down. I’m wondering if this starved the engine of oil for long enough to damage a lifter or possibly the cam. I’m hoping it might be a lazy lifter draining oil out over night but am doubtful. I would appreciate any thoughts, no need to slap me on the back of the head because I feel stupid enough

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I ran the engine in with very light run in oil then went straight to Penrite Hpr30 20w60 oil. The fella that assembled my engine said he was going to modify the oil pump to give it more flow but I don’t think he did, it seems to have low oil pressure at idle in warm weather going by my digital instrument cluster. I would try thinner oil but was worried about it not having good oil pressure once warmed up or is my theory all wrong, feel free to advise me on the topic of oil weight and it’s influence on oil pressure. Thanks for the feedback

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oil pressure is a balance between restriction to flow and flow capacity. 
Capacity (C) comes from the pump and increases with RPM.
Restriction is caused by the viscosity (V) of the oil and the sum of all of the size of the gaps your pushing it though (T). 
I guess it could look like
P = (CxRPM)/(VxT)
Pressure and flow (F) in the system are inversely related. P=/=F

F = CxRPMxTxV

 

You need to use whichever oil gives the flow you require, and provides sufficient film strength to protect the moving components. Do not be alarmed if your digital gauge is only showing 2 bars of pressure when at operating temp and at idle. This is fine. I would be more alarmed if your pressure was 2 bars over half when full. There is a misconception that thick oil = better protections and this is not always the case. Having oil that is too thick increases the risk of damage from thermal fracturing and Shearing of the VI's. It also reduces the ability of the oil to cool and increases load on the rotating assembly and the oil pump, costing efficiency. 
Too thin and it wont provide sufficient film strength.

There's obviously a lot more science in oils but i think that should sort you out.
 

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That’s an awesome explanation mate, thanks very much for sharing My digital gauge concerns me when it sits on only 2 bars at idle but I don’t think I fully trust the gauge. Sometimes I can be cruising along the flat freeway and the gauge goes from about halfway then almost reaches its highest point but drops back down to halfway for no apparent reason. All the same load and speed without running up or down any hills. Anyway, thanks for the help

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Is it a digital XF cluster you're referring to?

If it's a freshly built xflow I would've gone a 15W-40 or 15W-60 (Ford recommended 15W-40 when they were new). In saying that I've ran 20W-60 in my wagon with no issue since I had it and that had only 120,000kms when I got it

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10-50 seconds is no biggie. It's probably a tiny bit of crap caught under the metering valve inside the lifter. When you've switched it off and it's had a fair chance of landing on a lobe, the pressure from the valvespring pushes back against the lifter and squeezes all the oil out. If you haven't pulled one apart before, keep in mind that the hydraulic part only holds about half a cc, so only a slight leak would drain it in no time.

 

So you go to start it next morning or whatever and the lifter is empty and sits there clacking away. So starting the engine and getting oil up to it and then through it takes said length of time, but from then on the oil pressure can more than keep up with the tiny internal leak.

 

I'd be more worried about it being noisy when hot. That would indicate worn internals, the symptoms of which are made worse by the thinner oil.

 

Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

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Is it a digital XF cluster you're referring to?

If it's a freshly built xflow I would've gone a 15W-40 or 15W-60 (Ford recommended 15W-40 when they were new). In saying that I've ran 20W-60 in my wagon with no issue since I had it and that had only 120,000kms when I got it

Yes, digital xf xluster I did consider thinner oil when I did the engine rebuild but my other xf seems to love HPR 30 so I thought I’d keep them both on the same oil

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10-50 seconds is no biggie.
 
So you go to start it next morning or whatever and the lifter is empty and sits there clacking away.
 
Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk
 
 
 
 

Thanks Gerg, this is exactly what it’s doing. It just annoys me that it sounds like a clapped out old crossflow on start up. Everything is fine at operating temp so like you said probably just a bit of crap allowing it to drain out overnight. I can leave it for my 8 hour shift at work and it starts fine but once I’ve turned it off and it sits for 12 hours or more then it becomes noisy. Maybe the crap will become free one day and it will be all good again

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I think it's just something you have to live with. I remember my Corty doing the same thing but that engine was otherwise perfect, no blowby, etc. It's annoying but what else can you do?

Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk

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5 hours ago, Ando81 said:

Thanks Gerg, this is exactly what it’s doing. It just annoys me that it sounds like a clapped out old crossflow on start up

TICK Ford.. 

get a sticker made up.. i'm wondering if that's where Tickford got it's name from

 

you could try one of the additives, i tried a lifter free up one once that worked? wasn't a fresht engine like this though.. was some crusty thing with 250,000kms on it

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Yes, digital xf xluster I did consider thinner oil when I did the engine rebuild but my other xf seems to love HPR 30 so I thought I’d keep them both on the same oil
My ute used to hit flashing red bars whenever it was warm and the oil was half or lower on the "OK" bit of the dipstick. Motor never really sounded noisy.
I did check it once with a pressure gauge and it was fine and within specs.

That was when I decided the gauges on the digital cluster are very much indicators rather than super accurate.

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