Single rail issues

[NZXD 2,328]

Evening all, I’ve had a single rail in my XD for some time and while it is eventually being replaced sometime in the future I am getting more frustrated with it every time I drive it, and as a result not wanting to drive it.

 

Most issues I have read are people having to fish for a gear with it being sloppy.

 

I have the opposite issue, mine is difficult to get into any gear and even worse on down changes, it’s like lots of resistance. It’s beyond agricultural.

 

The box was rebuilt back in 2014 and has only travelled about 700km since.

 

The clutch has been bled a number of times but it’s the same shift quality.

 

I’m thinking it could be the type of gear oil I’m using???

 

Any advice is much appreciated.

 

Cheers

 

 

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[deankxf 20,264]

what oil is in it.. 
one of the service manuals suggested ATF but after mine was reco'd the builder said to use engine oil, 30weight from memory

gear oil is way too heavy

[CHESTNUTXE 7,299]

hmmmmm criss from the tranny shop who worked at the geelong plant back in the day said those boxes were just filled with normal engine oil from factory,but i run penrite gear oil in my box ,were your syncros replaced ? when criss rebuilt my box,with a new single rail kit and new syncros i honestly cant belive how good it is ,its the best rail box i have ever shifted and not sloppy at all,new alloy shifter nut as well,maybe just try a lighter oil and see what happends,a lot less work than pulling it out.

[NZXD 2,328]

what oil is in it.. 
one of the service manuals suggested ATF but after mine was reco'd the builder said to use engine oil, 30weight from memory
gear oil is way too heavy

It's got 80/90 gear oil.

When you say 30 weight, what specifically is that?


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[NZXD 2,328]

hmmmmm criss from the tranny shop who worked at the geelong plant back in the day said those boxes were just filled with normal engine oil from factory,but i run penrite gear oil in my box ,were your syncros replaced ? when criss rebuilt my box,with a new single rail kit and new syncros i honestly cant belive how good it is ,its the best rail box i have ever shifted and not sloppy at all,new alloy shifter nut as well,maybe just try a lighter oil and see what happends,a lot less work than pulling it out.

Yes it had the full kit put through it with new syncros and new shifter nut etc.

The oil is currently 80/90 gear oil.

What Penrite oil do you use?


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[CHESTNUTXE 7,299]

just mineral oil for older cars,about 27 bux for 2 litres,most outlets sell it,dean means just light engine oil 30w /50w

[CHESTNUTXE 7,299]

i cant remember the weight of my oil but i think its lighter than 80/90,i will chex in morning.

[NZXD 2,328]

i cant remember the weight of my oil but i think its lighter than 80/90,i will chex in morning.

Do you mean like some 20/50 mineral oil? 15/40 type stuff.


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[CHESTNUTXE 7,299]

noooo not 15/40 thats way to light

[NZXD 2,328]

So SAE 30 weight is common 4 stroke engine oil for small engines. I actually have some for the lawn mower.


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[deankxf 20,264]

34 minutes ago, NZXD said:

 

It's got 80/90 gear oil.

When you say 30 weight, what specifically is that?


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i would have used 25/50 valvoline engine oil, normal non synthetic, i did 80,000kms on it before the clutch went.. and i converted to auto

 

[NZXD 2,328]

i would have used 25/50 valvoline engine oil, normal non synthetic, i did 80,000kms on it before the clutch went.. and i converted to auto
 

I am open to all bits of advice.
20/50 mineral.


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[deankxf 20,264]

2 minutes ago, NZXD said:

I am open to all bits of advice.
20/50 mineral.


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i'd definitely try a lighter oil like that.

could ask the guy who built the gearbox. 

[deankxf 20,264]

My gemini when i got it had gear oil in it, it's synchro on 2nd felt non existent.. replaced it with 25/50 engine oil(gemini service manual says SAE30.) and it's almost perfect. 

[NZXD 2,328]

My gemini when i got it had gear oil in it, it's synchro on 2nd felt non existent.. replaced it with 25/50 engine oil(gemini service manual says SAE30.) and it's almost perfect. 

From everything I’ve been reading I need to drop the gear oil out and try engine oil. Sounds like it will help a lot.


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[deankxf 20,264]

1 minute ago, NZXD said:

 

From everything I’ve been reading I need to drop the gear oil out and try engine oil. Sounds like it will help a lot.


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i think you'll be glad you did, 
when i first asked the gearbox mob who did mine what oil to use, i was a bit shocked to hear engine oil also

[gerg 10,871]

The original manual says SAE30. It's getting harder to find monograde oil so I'd go with either 15W40 or 20W50. A light, non-ep gear oil would suffice, say Syntrans 75W85. That is a GL4.

The problem with using the gear oil is twofold. Not only do the EP additives make the syncros too slippery, they actually eat the brass away as would acid. Using EP oil (API GL5) in anything with brass/bronze components is a no-no.

Stick with dino oil Penrite HPR30 (with zinc) and you'll be sweet. The zinc will protect the teeth and bearings. I wouldn't go any thinner than that or with synthetic engine oil because single rails like to have leaks and synthetic loves to find them.

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[NZXD 2,328]

The original manual says SAE30. It's getting harder to find monograde oil so I'd go with either 15W40 or 20W50. A light, non-ep gear oil would suffice, say Syntrans 75W85. That is a GL4.

The problem with using the gear oil is twofold. Not only do the EP additives make the syncros too slippery, they actually eat the brass away as would acid. Using EP oil (API GL5) in anything with brass/bronze components is a no-no.

Stick with dino oil Penrite HPR30 (with zinc) and you'll be sweet. The zinc will protect the teeth and bearings. I wouldn't go any thinner than that or with synthetic engine oil because single rails like to have leaks and synthetic loves to find them.

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I have some Penrite HPR 30 (20/60) oil as I use it in my Crossflow.

Thanks


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[CHESTNUTXE 7,299]

im gunna check my penrite to see what it is

[NZXD 2,328]

I picked up a couple of litres of Penrite SAE 30 oil. Hopefully this helps and I can report back good news.


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[NZXD 2,328]

Oil has been changed.

Roll on Friday arvo for a test drive.


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[CHESTNUTXE 7,299]

ok tell us what happends

[deankxf 20,264]

yeah please report any findings. be surprised if it's not better

[NZXD 2,328]

Right so went out for a drive, let it all get up to running temps.

Initial differences are that the box makes a very slight whine, a lot easier to get into reverse.

Driving the up shifts are better and not so rough, downshifts are slightly better too.

Maybe over time the shifter will loosen up a bit, it’s quite stiff.

Over all for the $25 I spent to get oil it is a heap better to drive.


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[CHESTNUTXE 7,299]

I found a drunk under my car last night he was trying to pinch the wine out of the diff