Turbo BlowThrough Crossy Setup (Planning)

[Kiwi-E 731]

Hi All,

I'm currently looking at building a turbo setup for a 4.1 Crossy. This is a NZ build... so there is no worries about emissions or rego like in AUS. Engine will be in a xf sedan and will be a street car that will do mostly open road driving.  To start with I am planning to run the setup on a stock long motor (except upgraded valve springs). I want to spec the setup so that in future, if i choose to build a motor then the system will support the increased power level.

 

Aim for the setup on a stock 4.1:

HP Target: 250-300HP ...... happy with more, but not sure how long it would hang together

Boost: what ever it will take before it throws a leg out. Am planning on specifying the fuel system to support up to around 12-15 PSI

 

 

Base Engine:

Stock xf 4.1 with higher rate valve springs

Will run it on a descent oil so it has a bit of a chance of hanging together.

 

 

Hot side:

Manifold: Either log type or unequal length runner. Will be getting flange profiles cut and fabricating it myself.

Turbo: Borg Warner k27-2 with internal gate welded shut (off a 5.9 Cummins Diesel)  Already have two of these as the price was right.

Waste gate: probably 38mm if this will be sufficient????? Plumbed back to atmosphere

Exhaust: Either 2.5'' or 3''

 

 

Ignition:

MSD 6AL Programmable

Dizzy:  factory est

Coil: Need recommendation... MSD something??

 

Intake side:

Inter-cooler: Whatever fits in the available space. 2.5'' piping.

BOV: Maybe? ............ If needed to keep the carb happy

Intake manifold: 4 barrel of some kind,... Aussiespeed???  Need recommendations

Carb: 650CFM Quick Fuel Technology blow through carb ..........I'm  thinking this is way excessive... any thoughts? Was initially looking for a blow through carb around 450CFM but i haven't seemed to find one that exists.... There is always the option to modify a mech sec Holley carb to suit blow through.

 

 

Fuel:

Pump: Cater inline pump, 50 GPH at 20 PSI ............................. I think this should be a sufficient flow rate?

Fuel pressure regulator: Adjustable rising rate 1:1 bypass reg. 2-22PSI base pressure adjustment.

Fuel:  100 octane (is now commonly available at the pumps in my area)

Fuel lines: Will use existing steel feed line for return to tank and make another hard line for feed to engine bay.

 

Drive line:

Gearbox: Either t5 or borg warner 4 speed single rail, (more likely the single rail as it should stand a bit more abuse before going pop.)
Clutch: Need advice here.

Diff: LSD or Cigweld, 2.77 or 2.92 ratio. Will only go to a shorter ratio if using a box with overdrive

Tyres: 245/50/14 eagers ( Around 7% smaller in diameter than factory  sizes)

 

Gauges:

AEM wideband

oil pressure

oil temp

boost

 

This is an initial throw together of components. It would be good to hear from some of you experienced fellas if I'm on the right track or if I'm way off with some of my selections. There is probably things I've overlooked too. All input welcome.

Please give it a chance before everyone gets on the '' carbs are dumb, go EFI'' bandwagon

Cheers

Tom

 

[CHESTNUTXE 7,642]

i run a quickfool 450 d/p on my crossy,they are not advertised latley on websites for some reason,maybe because holley bought em out they want to sell 390's instead ? but the 450 is awsome.

[Kiwi-E 731]

I'll keep looking into it... I wonder if Quick Fuel ever made a 450cfm blow through carb?

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[CHESTNUTXE 7,642]

no dont think so,probly six fifty smallest

[XPT 673]

There's a link here for how to modify a 4 Barrel DP Holley for boost : http://www.hangar18fabrication.com/blowthru.html

I know you don't really want to hear it, but by the time you've paid for an Aussiespeed manifold, carb, msd etc. You could have bought an E series ecu and J3 chipped it. Bosch Green 42Lb injectors, walbro 255 pump, fuel reg, xflow efi manifold & rail.

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[gerg 10,875]

All sound like perfectly reasonable specs to work with. And target HP is realistic. My only recommendation is to definitely run a BOV. They are there not only to protect the carby ie: blowing through the throttle blades with vac one side and (otherwise) uncontrolled boost in the other, but also to protect the turbo from compressor surge and flow reversal.... Very bad.... You can do all sorts of damage, even snap the turbo shaft.

As XPT said, you can mod a standard Holley for boost, no need to splash out on a shiny new one. I would even look at a 500 for simplicity, and will bolt on to a redline 2BBL. I don't think the flow issues with 1 and 6 ports will be there in a boosted application.

You could even use a modded Weber or EA single point manifold to do the job. Boost tends to sort out any shortcomings in manifold design.

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[NZXD 2,328]

Sounds like pretty good combo to me and basically my plan for my XF Ghia but with EFI and EL ecu...

I have a Quickfuel 450 d/p that I did have on my 302w but I couldn’t get it 100%, it would be pig rich or lean as on my AFR (best thing I’ve ever purchased) gauge. Changed all sort of bits and gave up.

Brought a new Quickfuel 650 d/p Brawler without choke horn and it was nearly perfect out of the box, changed jets down on front and rear by two numbers and it’s near perfect.
I thought a 650 would be too big for the little 302w.

The Quickfuel blow through 650s have a good rep.


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[NZXD 2,328]

I should have added that a boosted crossy would easy handle the 650 blow through.


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[Kiwi-E 731]

I have had serrious thoughts about using an e series computer and j3 chip.... it is probably a more sensible option than the blow through.


Also found photos from this setup off facebook from awhile back
...... from the sounds of it it went allright for what it is. I think i'll keep looking down the blow through root for now.





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[slydog 7,873]

Id suggest blow thru over any factory ecu.

 

Or a aftermarket ecu like a MS3 or even a FAST set up with a screen.

[gerg 10,875]

Could you detail what you did to the QF 450? If you could get that running right, that would be a perfect size for what you're planning.

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[Kiwi-E 731]

I've comitted to the blow through setup. Have ordered a aussiespeed manifold and a programable MSD 6al.

Going for a simular setup to in the above pics. Might even look at throwing a cam at it at some stage.

I am currently looking at the Quickfuel 650 blow through (SS-650-BAN) and the 650 Mighty Demon blow through (5282020BT)
The demon being the cheaper of the two.

I still need to choose a suitable fuel pump and rising rate regular too.




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[Kiwi-E 731]

Anyone had any experience with Demon carbs??

I have read a handfull of reviews from around 2007-2010...most people were saying they experienced nothing but trouble with the blow through models... One would hope they have sorted out the issues in the last 10 years or so....

I can source a 650bt demon for a few hundred cheaper than a quickfuel.... However I'd rather spend the extra money to avoid the hassles if they are still known to be problematic.

Thanks

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[gerg 10,875]

Demon was taken over by Holley a few years back so should have similar quality standards. I'm not sure which market segment each line is catering for, but the Demons were much more tuneable via screw-in air bleeds, etc and some other hot rod tricks built into them. Maybe you could find some more recent reviews?

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[XPT 673]

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/build-blow-carb-less-50/
Here's another article on modding a Holley for boost. It would be a damn sight cheaper than buying a finished one. Maybe more fun too.

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[NZXD 2,328]

What is the going rate for the Quickfuel blown through?

Quickfuel is also Holley, all interchangeable parts.




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[Kiwi-E 731]

About $1200NZD +GST for a Quick fuel 650cfm blow through ........ Which is not very appealing.

 

Think I'll do some more homework on converting a double pumper before making the choice.

[gerg 10,875]

Sounds like it's doable for anyone who can hold a drill straight or glue shit up

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[NZXD 2,328]

Sounds like it's doable for anyone who can hold a drill straight or glue shit up

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There is a decent article by Hotrod Magazine (US) on this modification and it all looks fairly simple.




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[Kiwi-E 731]

I've got two major thinks left to choose for this combo. A carb and a camshaft.

After doing a bit of homework, i'm planning on modifying a holley to suit. Do we think a 650 dp holley modified for blow through would be too much for a crossy with a reasonable cam in it? One that might rev to around 5 - 5.5k instead of falling flat at 4k. Im hoping to run around15psi of boost if the rest of the setup will support that.

Or should i go a tad smaller with a 450 or 600 holley?

Thanks

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[slydog 7,873]

650 Will be fine. Cyl head will limit hp potential not cam or carb. I understand the budget build and you can mod the head later to suit. 

 

Cam I would suggest you research US boosted engine combos and what is currently used. Been as your cube limited a modern cam idea works better here. Mine is pretty well what most call a NA profile but my grinder does the same on RB engines making over a G of hp. 

[waderobertson 111]

Where did you end up with this build Kiwi-E?

[Kiwi-E 731]

Where did you end up with this build Kiwi-E?

Stalled currently. Got as far as buying some of the components and mocking up 2/3 of the exhaust manifold.

Then got sidetracked with a clevo swap into another car.

Hopefully get back into this in a few months time when the clevo xe is certed and on the road.


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