CHESTNUTXE

WINDSOR SMALLBLOCK TALK

496 posts in this topic

i just found 3 sets of heads ,2 x 302 heads ,and 1 x 289 ,but they have the older push in stud type rockers,can i still run the roller cam with these older type rockers ? like is the goemetry the same once bolted down ? cause the later heads have bolts that hold the rockers compard to adj nut ? i guess the 289 heads with drilled out 1/2 inch holes would be the best yeah ? to bump the comp up a bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

nah fk that i just did some reasearch those older heads have tiny ports and no provision for later roller lifters,seems the best is the later efi heads.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hey have you seen the ford racing cast iron N351 HEAD good for the money ,about $1300 landed complete set.

I have looked into these and I can’t see how a complete set with valves etc can be landed here for $1300 bucks, as a bare set is $500us, plus conversion and freight (would be a bit as they would be heavy).

Most forums I have read say they are ok for a cast head but need work to flow as good as an AFR165.

The main issue the header bolts are spaced wider so you couldn’t use an off the shelf header flange.

Get some alloys for a little bit extra, even if they are the Proflow or TLG brand, they will work great as it’s not a 6500rpm all day motor.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
CHESTNUTXE likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have looked into these and I can’t see how a complete set with valves etc can be landed here for $1300 bucks, as a bare set is $500us, plus conversion and freight (would be a bit as they would be heavy).

Most forums I have read say they are ok for a cast head but need work to flow as good as an AFR165.

The main issue the header bolts are spaced wider so you couldn’t use an off the shelf header flange.

Get some alloys for a little bit extra, even if they are the Proflow or TLG brand, they will work great as it’s not a 6500rpm all day motor.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I had another look at this roller cam im not sure if its a 302 or 351w or std could be the same ? I cleaned it up a bit with 2000 and wd40 doesn't have any pitting like the other ed 5.0 engine i did i wonder what its specs are ?it has TE writing on itf852af03b90f4a245312c147fd03bf77.jpg3d11f79495665e32e6dc785b08e3ec0e.jpg

Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just reading about how the camshaft are stamped TE.

Basically the camshaft of 1992 had total lift of 0.260 x 1.6 for the rocker = 0.416 life.

1993 onwards you got 0.278 and 0.283 x 1.6 = 0.444 and 0.452.

A good upgrade is the E303 or crane equivalent of 220@.50 and 0.498 lift.
A factory GT40 style head will be on its limit with that cam, remember that a GT40 cast head is on its limits for a 302w.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

CHESTNUTXE likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just reading about how the camshaft are stamped TE.

Basically the camshaft of 1992 had total lift of 0.260 x 1.6 for the rocker = 0.416 life.

1993 onwards you got 0.278 and 0.283 x 1.6 = 0.444 and 0.452.

A good upgrade is the E303 or crane equivalent of 220@.50 and 0.498 lift.
A factory GT40 style head will be on its limit with that cam, remember that a GT40 cast head is on its limits for a 302w.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The block is back ,i already painted it and put the std cam back in it tomorrow will drop the crank in it and start assembly a23d0c4aab426ea92fe5c3395e45b865.jpg62a35454942c2a1aa3366d0cf744fed9.jpg2f35d60d0bad224d21c61c140a1d7340.jpg

Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk

deankdx and NZXD like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The block is back ,i already painted it and put the std cam back in it tomorrow will drop the crank in it and start assembly a23d0c4aab426ea92fe5c3395e45b865.jpg62a35454942c2a1aa3366d0cf744fed9.jpg2f35d60d0bad224d21c61c140a1d7340.jpg

Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk

Hey just for interest what is the biggest stroker kit you can put in the 351w block 408? 427 ? Without going to the dart block

Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i think they'd be the same, can go bigger than 408 in the Dart because BGDAV was considering it(wishing he did it) but the issue is how strong is the block Vs the horsepower goal..

remember again, the bigger the cubes the better the heads you'll need(or you'd just be spending money for no benefit)

 

gerg likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i think they'd be the same, can go bigger than 408 in the Dart because BGDAV was considering it(wishing he did it) but the issue is how strong is the block Vs the horsepower goal..
remember again, the bigger the cubes the better the heads you'll need(or you'd just be spending money for no benefit)
 
9.5 deckheight on both blocks i always thought the dart or other aftermarket blocks had a bigger deck but yeah they are the same,probably has scalloped out rail or other parts of the block to fit 468 c.i.

Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, CHESTNUTXE said:

9.5 deckheight on both blocks i always thought the dart or other aftermarket blocks had a bigger deck but yeah they are the same,probably has scalloped out rail or other parts of the block to fit 468 c.i.

Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk
 

i'm pretty sure Dave's needed machining for stuff regardless even for the 408. i didn't follow that side of it and no real interest.. HOWEVER the torque it has at 2000rpm with 3V heads is impressive, if you can justify the fuel bill something that made power to 6500rpm and torque from probably not much over idle would be awesome.. 

goal of say low 14s with wheel spin with 2.92s would be mad for a mild build.. you could probably do similar with a well built 351 crank though and careful thought on headflow and cam  etc .. would save $4000 in stroker and probably similar on heads and manifolds and other custom crap(extractors expense also)

CHESTNUTXE likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hey just for interest what is the biggest stroker kit you can put in the 351w block 408? 427 ? Without going to the dart block

Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk

Realistically, 408 is the max. That's a 4" stroke and bored +0.030. On a 351W you can go out to 0.060" and make it 414 cubes. Any more stroke than that and it's getting a bit silly. You'd be approaching both a mechanical and breathing limit at that. Not even a big block has that much stroke.
9.5 deckheight on both blocks i always thought the dart or other aftermarket blocks had a bigger deck but yeah they are the same,probably has scalloped out rail or other parts of the block to fit 468 c.i.

Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk

Darts are available in both Windsor deck heights (8.2 and 9.5). Ford Motorsport used to do a 9.2 deck for NASCAR. Not aware of any taller though. You can punch out a 4.125 Dart to 4.2 as an absolute max, and with a 4.125 stroke that makes 457. Would be a big dollar build though. Notching cylinders and rails to clear rods, serious balancing, roller cam, big heads, etc.

They used to offset grind 400 cranks to suit Chev or Chrysler rods to get more stroke, but the rod/stroke ratio would be dismal. That makes for a pretty short-lived engine. 347 strokers often don't last long for that reason.

I know I'd rather start with good factory Ford iron than buy in some Chinese steel crank with Scat or Eagle stamped on it. You just don't hear of anyone offset grinding factory cranks any more, which is a shame.

Sent from my CPH1607 using Tapatalk

CHESTNUTXE likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
why didnt ford do all this back in the day ? like offer  different crank n rod combos ?
Ford has a durability regime for anything it sells, which is brutal and over and above most situations you and I would put our engines through. The aftermarket has merely word-of-mouth reputations to uphold (let's be honest, warranties are bullshit).

The Dart 4.125 blocks (and standard bore) are siamesed for strength but this design wasn't ideal in a daily/truck engine as cooling issues often pop up. Just ask anyone with a 400 Chev (not entirely the engine's fault though).

Manufacturers have to dial in a safety factor when spec'ing an engine, or anything for that matter. They take the point at which something fails and make their determined safe limit a mere fraction of that.

Sent from my CPH1607 using Tapatalk

Valvebouncer likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ford has a durability regime for anything it sells, which is brutal and over and above most situations you and I would put our engines through. The aftermarket has merely word-of-mouth reputations to uphold (let's be honest, warranties are bullshit).

The Dart 4.125 blocks (and standard bore) are siamesed for strength but this design wasn't ideal in a daily/truck engine as cooling issues often pop up. Just ask anyone with a 400 Chev (not entirely the engine's fault though).

Manufacturers have to dial in a safety factor when spec'ing an engine, or anything for that matter. They take the point at which something fails and make their determined safe limit a mere fraction of that.

Sent from my CPH1607 using Tapatalk

The crank is in and turns very nice also 1 piece rear main felpro fits really tight and next question is wtf is this hole at the rear is it a truck dip stick hole ?5dd3bc7e6546c23da1b54a0cbb873cf8.jpg98678c59adf321e7e8fb9d0824ea7829.jpg6fecaec2fbcdc170b812075d255793a4.jpg

Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1st snag if its a snag,how much wobble in the bore should the piston be ? i can move the piston about 020 ,so i checked the ring in the bore and nope its fine ,see picture,next 2 pictures are showing the gap at the bottom holding the piston ,so as a back up test i put another piston in another bore and nope its the same wobble ? is this wrong or once it heats up and expands will take up slack ?i also checked the bore its spot on 4.000 ?vhKhiZWt_o.jpgiJukcpHs_o.jpgrNAnzefa_o.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, CHESTNUTXE said:

why didnt ford do all this back in the day ? like offer  different crank n rod combos ?

Ford did offer a factory 347 stroker in the TS50.

CHESTNUTXE likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't forget your pistons are slightly smaller at the top. More heat, more expansion. If it's a standard bore size, and stock piston, should be sweet.

CHESTNUTXE likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hmmmm  i spent 2 weeks trying to find the right ring set from usa and im in the red $170 for the rings if they are wrong i will cop that,and order some new piston n ring set ,higher comp pistons speed pro do a nice set,i will take it to the machine shop and see what ol m8 thinks ,im just a bit worried about the amount of slap in the piston ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i think your right bear most are saying that .003 minimum ,but that is at the bottom of the skirt,so i did a test at the bottom and its much smaller gap than at the top,because its still using the factory pistons and std bore after honing as well you would expect the top gap to be a bit bigger,plus god knows how many miles put on it,the side skirts of the pistons show slight ware but nothing critical,interesting note a F1 engine is so tight in the bores they have to heat the block up about an hour even b4 the thing can be started !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ford did offer a factory 347 stroker in the TS50.
They tried buying in stroker kits and came to the conclusion that they're garbage, by their standards anyway. They sourced the parts locally instead.

Sent from my CPH1607 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, gerg said:

They tried buying in stroker kits and came to the conclusion that they're garbage, by their standards anyway. They sourced the parts locally instead.

Sent from my CPH1607 using Tapatalk
 

Correct, I was stating to chestnut they did release a stroker as he asked why ford never did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Correct, I was stating to chestnut they did release a stroker as he asked why ford never did.
I wasn't correcting you, just adding my useless bit of daily trivia

Sent from my CPH1607 using Tapatalk

XF347 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now