gerg 10,871 Posted November 22, 2021 What kind of comp will you get if you use the stock rebuilders 70 down the hole but with 58cc closed heads?Sent from my CPH1920 using Tapatalk 1 burnnotice1000 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
burnnotice1000 588 Posted November 22, 2021 What kind of comp will you get if you use the stock rebuilders 70 down the hole but with 58cc closed heads?Sent from my CPH1920 using Tapatalk9.6.1 Sent from my SM-A125F using Tapatalk 1 gerg reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted November 22, 2021 That's not too bad, much better than the lawnmower-spec 7.8 that some came withSent from my CPH1920 using Tapatalk 1 CHESTNUTXE reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CHESTNUTXE 7,299 Posted November 24, 2021 so why is 70 down the hole bad ? with 9.5.1 ,why why why did ford do this ? when the average clevo is 30 down the hole,is it more prone to ping pong and detonation with 70 thou ? than zero ? the 400 was born in mid 1971 and experimental 4v manifolds are very rare i have seen a few castings with the xe prefix and to suit 4v heads,but by 1972 it was all over and the dredded call from head office said bin the lot,it only took 50 years for someone to make a zero deck piston available,ahh let me correct that some 400 pistons were made in the 80s in small numbers with a higher comp height but i guess the 400 was not popular enough to continue manufacturing im sure they were speed pro forged you can find some info on them on the net. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CHESTNUTXE 7,299 Posted November 24, 2021 here is a good one, when priming the oil pump b4 start up should it be turned anti clock wise or it dont matter ?. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted November 24, 2021 here is a good one, when priming the oil pump b4 start up should it be turned anti clock wise or it dont matter ?.It definitely matters mate, spinning it backwards pumps backwards.Spin it the same direction as the dizzy, as that is what turns it normally.70 down the hole on open chambers means shit compression. They did this when unleaded fuel came along in 1975, and they didn't have anything to replace lead at the time, so octane rating was horrible. That created more problems with the poor quench of that combustion chamber design and pinging that went with it, more retarded cam and ignition timing, and crap performance to go with it.70 down the hole plus 40 gasket is 110 piston to head clearance, which is way too much to be considered a quench chamber. You need to aim for 50 or less if you want a proper quench action.So with those pistons it behaves like an open head. No huge deal, you just might not be able to run as much timing before you get pinging. My little 302 with closed heads takes nearly 40 degrees total and more under cruise.Sent from my CPH1920 using Tapatalk 1 burnnotice1000 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
burnnotice1000 588 Posted November 28, 2021 It definitely matters mate, spinning it backwards pumps backwards.Spin it the same direction as the dizzy, as that is what turns it normally.70 down the hole on open chambers means shit compression. They did this when unleaded fuel came along in 1975, and they didn't have anything to replace lead at the time, so octane rating was horrible. That created more problems with the poor quench of that combustion chamber design and pinging that went with it, more retarded cam and ignition timing, and crap performance to go with it.70 down the hole plus 40 gasket is 110 piston to head clearance, which is way too much to be considered a quench chamber. You need to aim for 50 or less if you want a proper quench action.So with those pistons it behaves like an open head. No huge deal, you just might not be able to run as much timing before you get pinging. My little 302 with closed heads takes nearly 40 degrees total and more under cruise.Sent from my CPH1920 using TapatalkWith bordem set in I got my build stuff out for another check and wd40 ect rods,heads,bell,manifold and will post pictures of the block nextSent from my SM-A125F using Tapatalk 1 Outback Jack reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outback Jack 6,352 Posted November 28, 2021 Going good me Ol Chestnut!Looks like someone got 400 fever... He he.Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk 1 burnnotice1000 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
burnnotice1000 588 Posted November 28, 2021 Going good me Ol Chestnut!Looks like someone got 400 fever... He he.Sent from my S21 using TapatalkI know I go on about this block that's cause it's rare as ,let's start with typical big block bell pattern,1971 cast D1AE with no abbreviations after it is high nickel,STD bore with typical cleveland style pan rails ,3 inch mains and large 2 bolt caps,has light surface rust in bores but will clean up fine at 020 or 030 ,see the sought of pillows cast into it ,this is where maybe the Geelong foundry got the idea for the XE pillow block castings.i have also had it milled to suit a svo 351w 1 piece rear main sealSent from my SM-A125F using Tapatalk 3 bear351c, gerg and RM351 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gregaust 319 Posted November 28, 2021 Lookin' real good . Build up a nice C4 to go on there . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CHESTNUTXE 7,299 Posted December 3, 2021 yes thats another ford part that is drying up,im looking for a pan fill c4 core or working gearbox in good cond ,and fit my big block bell to it,i already have flexplate and sandwhich plate,should i just get a stock clevo converter or up it to a 2200-2500 ? cause it will have a cam in it ,not big thou Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted December 3, 2021 yes thats another ford part that is drying up,im looking for a pan fill c4 core or working gearbox in good cond ,and fit my big block bell to it,i already have flexplate and sandwhich plate,should i just get a stock clevo converter or up it to a 2200-2500 ? cause it will have a cam in it ,not big thouI think this will have the kahoonas to pull from idle even with a cam. Stock, nice and tight converter is the go I reckon Sent from my CPH1920 using Tapatalk 1 burnnotice1000 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
burnnotice1000 588 Posted December 3, 2021 I think this will have the kahoonas to pull from idle even with a cam. Stock, nice and tight converter is the go I reckon Sent from my CPH1920 using TapatalkI found a nice deal from USA e bay comp cam lifters and chain for $280us the cam is 494/494 on 110 and 218@50 just remember I'm using new steel rockers not roller rockers ,that Elgin cam I used in the other 400 is out of stock 505lift ect it's really popular and the factory hasn't made any more since covid stopped a lot of businesses production.Sent from my SM-A125F using Tapatalk 2 CHESTNUTXE and gerg reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CHESTNUTXE 7,299 Posted December 3, 2021 this one i have actually used b4 about 10 years ago on a xe sedan with 4 speed and 351c and is a nice mannerd street cam h268https://www.ebay.com/itm/133374008819 2 burnnotice1000 and gerg reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted December 3, 2021 this one i have actually used b4 about 10 years ago on a xe sedan with 4 speed and 351c and is a nice mannerd street cam h268https://www.ebay.com/itm/133374008819That will be a sweet engine, but I think your machine shop guy is going to have a little chat to you about giving it some extra berries seeing as you say the block is something special, it can defs handle it. Sent from my CPH1920 using Tapatalk 2 CHESTNUTXE and burnnotice1000 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
burnnotice1000 588 Posted December 3, 2021 That will be a sweet engine, but I think your machine shop guy is going to have a little chat to you about giving it some extra berries seeing as you say the block is something special, it can defs handle it. Sent from my CPH1920 using TapatalkMy springs suit 540 lift and can't find a cleveland roller hyd cam 540 or a tad smaller on lift,there is one by comp but it's only a very small roller 505 lift and tow ect cam.Sent from my SM-A125F using Tapatalk 2 gerg and CHESTNUTXE reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted December 8, 2021 A bloke is selling a clevo on FB for 12.5k, sounds like not a bad deal (CHI 4V heads) except the block is punched out 30 and the parts are used. It still looks new but may have a bit of run time.In the pics it shows (as he claims) it's a pillow block, but a D2. I didn't know they made them that early. Can anyone confirm when the pillow block became a thing? I thought it was a late 70s NASCAR thinghttps://m.facebook.com/groups/1533658606896488/permalink/3010996045829396/Sent from my CPH1920 using Tapatalk 1 CHESTNUTXE reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CHESTNUTXE 7,299 Posted December 8, 2021 from the research ive done on these blocks from other websites including usa forums there was a first run of these nascar blocks cast in australia in the xc era ,group c cars like the dj coupe was running one ,i dont no how many were made but some or all of them did NOT have pillows yes did NOT have pillows i have seen a picture of one in temeyers workshop ready for assembly,probly a core left over from a racing camp,but the 2nd lot made in GF did have pillows,they range from very late xd to mid 82 casting in xe,the one i had was may 82 cast. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted December 8, 2021 I thought that XC run of pillows was an experimental batch, hence the "XE" prefix. Or was that only for the ones destined for NASCAR use?Sent from my CPH1920 using Tapatalk 1 CHESTNUTXE reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bear351c 10,270 Posted December 8, 2021 13 hours ago, gerg said: A bloke is selling a clevo on FB for 12.5k, sounds like not a bad deal (CHI 4V heads) except the block is punched out 30 and the parts are used. It still looks new but may have a bit of run time. In the pics it shows (as he claims) it's a pillow block, but a D2. I didn't know they made them that early. Can anyone confirm when the pillow block became a thing? I thought it was a late 70s NASCAR thinghttps://m.facebook.com/groups/1533658606896488/permalink/3010996045829396/ Sent from my CPH1920 using Tapatalk Yeah, I saw that too....... 1972.? 2 gerg and CHESTNUTXE reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
burnnotice1000 588 Posted December 17, 2021 Yeah, I saw that too....... 1972.? Some small parts have turned up including this nice arp oil driveSent from my SM-A125F using Tapatalk 1 deankxf reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
burnnotice1000 588 Posted December 24, 2021 Some small parts have turned up including this nice arp oil driveSent from my SM-A125F using TapatalkMore stuff came,bearings and this nice moroso oil primer shaft,I'm also chasing all the threads then next year start the next process at the machine shop,bore n hone,deck the block a tiny bit for clean up,ect ectSent from my SM-A125F using Tapatalk 1 gerg reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CHESTNUTXE 7,299 Posted December 25, 2021 hey why cant the 400 crank mains be ground down to 2.749 and fit in a normal cleveland block ? is that too much meat to be taken off ? or line bore the block to 3.000 ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted January 1, 2022 hey why cant the 400 crank mains be ground down to 2.749 and fit in a normal cleveland block ? is that too much meat to be taken off ? or line bore the block to 3.000 ? That was pretty common in the day, start with a 400 crank and grind the mains down 1/4” for a cheap clevo stroker crank. I think they used to chop quite a bit off the counterweights too, as they're too big for shorter stroker rods and shorter, lighter aftermarket pistons.The reason why Ford went with such big mains (as with 351Ws) compared to clevos is because they were designed as a truck engine, to be able to slog it out for hours on end and bigger mains have more surface area to take this kind of load.Also, crank twist and torsional vibration (ultimately breakage) is better resisted with main and big end journals overlapping on the crank throw, relying less on the thickness of the metal in the crank cheek itself. This is made more critical by all the accessory drive stuff hanging off the front of the crank in a truck installation (like compressors, hydraulic pumps, big AC systems, etc).If they didn't have such big journals, the crank would have to be made from a more exotic material than good old nodular iron. While modern stroker cranks are often not forged, they're at least a little bit fancy a grade of steel.Sent from my CPH1920 using Tapatalk 1 burnnotice1000 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted January 1, 2022 Regarding line boring the block... I don't have a clevo and a 400 block to compare, to know if the main cap bolts are the same distance apart for each but if the 400 is wider, then boring the clevo out to suit 3.0" mains might have the tunnel bore too close to the bolt holes and end up with cracking issues or ripping them out altogether. Sent from my CPH1920 using Tapatalk 1 burnnotice1000 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites