Jump to content
Server maintenance Read more... ×
CHESTNUTXE

CLEVELAND ENGINE TALK

Recommended Posts

Wow@gerg looks like you caught that in the nick of time. Good work on figuring out the shims, that'll definitely set you up nicely. 
 
For the aircraft, it was a Gardan Minicab built in 1969 and powered by a 1940 model Continental A65-8; an air-cooled 170ci flat four for non aircraftians. It had twin Bendix magnetos and no starter, so I had to hand prop it. Because it was a low winger I stood in front of the prop. Generally started second or third flip, stupidly satisfying!
Just looked it up... Very sweet looking little machine, and very rare! Looks almost like a pre-war fighter

Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Far out, bit of info in those last posts. Well done on your honesty. 😄

The washer spacers work fine. Make sure you blow all the oil out the blind holes in the pedestals. 

 

Happy to hear it's not chewed another bumpstick, do ya reckon the rocker geometry was responsible for the earlier failures.??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

Far out, bit of info in those last posts. Well done on your honesty.  The washer spacers work fine. Make sure you blow all the oil out the blind holes in the pedestals. 

 

Happy to hear it's not chewed another bumpstick, do ya reckon the rocker geometry was responsible for the earlier failures.??

 

 

Sorry bear, yeah there's a bit to get through. I do tend to go into detail

 

Finally got the shit back in the horse and running today, still ticks a bit but I found something really silly that was making it run rough: I had the canister purge connected straight to vacuum. As I've never taken much notice of where it's supposed to go on the carby, I just guessed. The motor didn't like this and the extra fuel vapours made it run like a hairy goat. Fouled bloody all 8 plugs!

 

So swapped them out for some temporary ones, and now she purrs. But still, after all that buggerising around with shims, etc, it has a valvetrain tick. Maybe one of the lifters is a bit gummed. There was a bit of sludge building up as I mentioned, so an oil change may help.

 

As for rocker geometry... The whole time I just used stock rockers so whatever the factory geometry was, that's what it had. I think the failures were from not using an oil with enough zinc in it.

 

First cam failure, I didn't use break-in additive, failed after a couple thousand ks. Second time, it did about 70,000 ks. I was using a modern, low-zinc oil with Liqui-Moly when it failed. Never again... That shit is no substitute for Zinc. Lesson learnt.

 

But funny you mentioned geometry, because I think these rockers are a bit different from clevo ones. These were sent down by my brother as he doesn't need them right now, were bought as a set of 12 for his crossy. I found out by their part number, and the fact that they came with metric pedestal bolts, that they are actually for a 3.8 Essex (Canada) V6. Now on mine, the pushrods that go through the drillings in the heads have been touching a bit, which could mean that despite them being 1.73 like a clevo, the geometry could be slightly different. I'm not too botheredby it. I have 4 more to get and the engine will have a full set. I'm currently running 8 down one side, and 4 on the inlets down the other, stockers on the exhausts. Wacky but whatever, still runs nice.

 

Oh and to make sure all of the rocker bolts don't bottom out, I used a spring washer under each one, plus the shim, should have all of them spaced back out of their holes by a couple of turns.

Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

gerg i had a similar problem on a fresh 351c std rebiuld,i bought a set of stamped steel rockers that i thought were clevo ,well half of them were and the other half were for a older windsor,the main differance was in the height of the pedastil mounts,after working out what was wrong and putting correct rockers it was fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hey i might have scored a 400 and csix tranny complete combo original 2 barrel,aparently it has been earmarked for me at a local garage,im gunna go and look at it in the morning,could be very interesting to pull it down and sus it out and do the usual re build.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well its just as i pictured,came out of a GALAXY many moons ago,but as the history goes it has been sitting in a shed for 17 years in toowoomba ,and b4 that unknown,but has nice 2 barrell holley on it,plus gearbox complete,and even resonably good cond 400 air cleaner,just about has all brackets and 99 percent all there,but he wants a bit much for it imo,i told him i will think about it,the 400 has different engine mounts,to our clevos,so narrows it down to a small percentage of usa sedans or f trucks,sooo ? yeah im not sure but would be cool to own one,if me i would put normal aussie 2v opens on it as ours were 72cc,but these mothers are around 80cc and are the genuine faze 4 smog head.M3w1aBUW_o.jpgO1jSiIK7_o.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
well its just as i pictured,came out of a GALAXY many moons ago,but as the history goes it has been sitting in a shed for 17 years in toowoomba ,and b4 that unknown,but has nice 2 barrell holley on it,plus gearbox complete,and even resonably good cond 400 air cleaner,just about has all brackets and 99 percent all there,but he wants a bit much for it imo,i told him i will think about it,the 400 has different engine mounts,to our clevos,so narrows it down to a small percentage of usa sedans or f trucks,sooo ? yeah im not sure but would be cool to own one,if me i would put normal aussie 2v opens on it as ours were 72cc,but these mothers are around 80cc and are the genuine faze 4 smog head.M3w1aBUW_o.jpgO1jSiIK7_o.jpg
That looks like a score... I would jump at it seeing a they're like unicorn poo here in Oz. You'll get your money back no sweat.

I for one would love to have that kind of giggle-inducing torque in my ride, dunno what it would be like on fuel though.

Mounts shouldn't be too much of a drama, I'm sure there are mobs in the States who have worked it out. You could get some conversion mounts, do it up and sell it as a drop-in package for a Falcon or Fairlane. Maybe a tough Bronco or F-series. Just shove in a good midrange cam, use stock valvetrain, 4-barrel manifolds are easily available so you don't have to put up with a wheezy 2 barrel Holley.

Zero deck pistons need to come from T Meyer in the States, nobody else I know of makes them. Stockers sit about 3 miles down the bore, that along with the open chambers gave very shit smog-aera compression... In the high 7s I believe.

Interested in the block number too. That would tell you what it came out of.

One thing before you buy it .. make sure it's a 400 and not a 351M. Pull the sump to check the crank number or do a stroke test.

Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That looks like a score... I would jump at it seeing a they're like unicorn poo here in Oz. You'll get your money back no sweat.

I for one would love to have that kind of giggle-inducing torque in my ride, dunno what it would be like on fuel though.

Mounts shouldn't be too much of a drama, I'm sure there are mobs in the States who have worked it out. You could get some conversion mounts, do it up and sell it as a drop-in package for a Falcon or Fairlane. Maybe a tough Bronco or F-series. Just shove in a good midrange cam, use stock valvetrain, 4-barrel manifolds are easily available so you don't have to put up with a wheezy 2 barrel Holley.

Zero deck pistons need to come from T Meyer in the States, nobody else I know of makes them. Stockers sit about 3 miles down the bore, that along with the open chambers gave very shit smog-aera compression... In the high 7s I believe.

Interested in the block number too. That would tell you what it came out of.

One thing before you buy it .. make sure it's a 400 and not a 351M. Pull the sump to check the crank number or do a stroke test.

Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk

Its the 351m that has different pin height the 400 uses same pin as our clevos so pistons are a plenty

Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Its the 351m that has different pin height the 400 uses same pin as our clevos so pistons are a plenty

Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk

Unfortunately it's not that simple Action Man....

Pin diameters are bigger on these, so clevo ones are a no go.

Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Unfortunately it's not that simple Action Man....

Pin diameters are bigger on these, so clevo ones are a no go.

Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk

Im glad you said that cause thats what i told the engine shop and they said nahhh

Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i not sure about buying it as he wants $1500 for the whole lot,i could use the 2 barrel 350 on a crossy build i suppose,chuck the 2 barrel iron manifold in the recycle bin,ect ect,not sure about the tranny is a c six rare these days, i know the smallblock bell ones are sought after,but they are huge,even bigger than a fmx ,but it would be a matching combo ,i might make a deal with him asi cant help myself i have always wanted one of these post clevo engines as like in the six million dollar man GENTLEMAN WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY ,WE CAN REBUILD HIM,with juicy shelf parts and crap we have learnt about these boat anchors in the last 30 years.🤔

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i wonder how far could you bore it ? might make 410
Stroke it....!   and it will grow in size.     
+30 will make it 408, isn't that enough? The stroke is already 4", longer than any Ford big block ever made.

Only some rare 1970 blocks were made with the smallblock bellhousing pattern, all others were big block, as is likely for this one. Maybe a big-block C6 is worth something out here? I dunno.

Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Unfortunately it's not that simple Action Man....

Pin diameters are bigger on these, so clevo ones are a no go.

Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk

One thing you could do I guess, if pistons are too pricey or hard to get, is to bush down the standard rod little ends to suit 351C size.

351C: 0.912"
351M/400: 0.975"

So that's a difference of 0.063", or 0.0315" wall thickness in the little end bush. If that's within the capabilities of your machine shop, then it might be an avenue to pursue. That way, not only could you go with clevo pistons, but also full floating at the same time.

Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

for $200 you can buy a set of normal grand canyon pistons and rings,then zero deck it,and put a set of aussie 2v opens that have been shaved 040 ,would bring comp to around 10.1,or dont zero deck it just skim surface and use 2v 302 heads would yeild even more but lets find out about these trmeyer flat tops.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
for $200 you can buy a set of normal grand canyon pistons and rings,then zero deck it,and put a set of aussie 2v opens that have been shaved 040 ,would bring comp to around 10.1,or dont zero deck it just skim surface and use 2v 302 heads would yeild even more but lets find out about these trmeyer flat tops.

How much will you have to take off to get them to zero? You have to factor in pushrod length once this is done. Having to buy new custom length pushrods might be false economy over getting the right piston. Also port alignment on inlet manifold would be affected.

 

If using open chamber heads, zero deck means nothing. You only do it with closed chamber heads to tighten up the quench area and give better turbulence.

 

Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you got the 400 at .030 over and chucked a cheap set of valve-relief pistons in it (assuming 8cc dish equivalent) the thing would be about 11.3 to 1 compression if you used 302C closed chamber heads. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If you got the 400 at .030 over and chucked a cheap set of valve-relief pistons in it (assuming 8cc dish equivalent) the thing would be about 11.3 to 1 compression if you used 302C closed chamber heads. 
Vark yeah lets play ping pong

Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
have seen a few nice 400s on you tube pulling 500hp on dyno with usual mods,i bet these big inch motors love a big carb 
Depends on what you're using it for, but just remember CFM = HP.

So if you've got a stump-puller that peaks torque at 2500 and makes around 300hp but runs out of puff before 5000, a 600 would suffice. But if you go putting 4V heads on, roller cam, single plane manifold and spin it to 6500+ then a 850 or bigger is in order.

I would love to have a play with one of these and shove it in a box Falcon as a torque monster with nice tall gearing. I'd really love to feel the torque in a relatively light body just effortlessly surging along without even breaking a sweat.

Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
have seen a few nice 400s on you tube pulling 500hp on dyno with usual mods,i bet these big inch motors love a big carb 
Depends on what you're using it for, but just remember CFM = HP.

So if you've got a stump-puller that peaks torque at 2500 and makes around 300hp but runs out of puff before 5000, a 600 would suffice. But if you go putting 4V heads on, roller cam, single plane manifold and spin it to 6500+ then a 850 or bigger is in order.

I would love to have a play with one of these and shove it in a box Falcon as a torque monster with nice tall gearing. I'd really love to feel the torque in a relatively light body just effortlessly surging along without even breaking a sweat.

Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well it only had a 350 on it ?????? motor and box is still available gerg if you want it,just send me the money and i will put it in my garage to give to ando to bring down next time he goes to sydney lol😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
well it only had a 350 on it ?????? motor and box is still available gerg if you want it,just send me the money and i will put it in my garage to give to ando to bring down next time he goes to sydney lol
Lol .. if I had the money, I'd pay some bills

Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×