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dex

Supercharger

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My 2 Deutschmarks:

Rear mounts seem to be a thing with the LS and 5.0 crowd, where they have:

1) decent cubes
2) tuning for NA performance
3) not too much boost (relatively)
4) often running autos

Cubes: gets you out of the hole, lag is not as noticeable.

NA: they're often built/tuned for off-boost performance and the turbo comes after. They can run the usual headers, tunnel ram, etc.

Low boost: less time needed to pressurise a large intake tract if that pressure is low (say 10 psi)

Running autos: any lag created by the large inlet/exhaust volume is only a problem performance-wise off the mark. As long as your foot is planted and the auto is shifting for you, you have boost. I should imagine such a setup would be a royal pain in the arse on a manual car.

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actually a lot of those points aren't true ... take Stella for example (Version 6 STI) she is a 2L Turbo with a pretty big turbo, VF28 which is apparently quite laggy, now I have an APS front mount and keep in mind the intake is on the back of the engine, this was good for a top mount intercooler but with a front mount you have to run very long pipes and APS has these silicone pipes and they are LONG! on both sides, if I look at the distance in the pipes it's at least 3.5 meters if not more if you take into account the front mount, I make boost at 2.8k and 1.2 bar by 3.8k, I don't really see much lag as the car is quite light for a 2L, it's 1270kg and she is a manual. Once on boost it screams to 8k and I don't feel any lag at all, I think a rear mount would be quite lag free with a crossflow mainly because of the torque, keep in mind it can't be less torquey than stock! stock they breath through a tiny carb and even smaller exhaust so with 3.45 gears you will not feel any lag 

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actually a lot of those points aren't true ... take Stella for example (Version 6 STI) she is a 2L Turbo with a pretty big turbo, VF28 which is apparently quite laggy, now I have an APS front mount and keep in mind the intake is on the back of the engine, this was good for a top mount intercooler but with a front mount you have to run very long pipes and APS has these silicone pipes and they are LONG! on both sides, if I look at the distance in the pipes it's at least 3.5 meters if not more if you take into account the front mount, I make boost at 2.8k and 1.2 bar by 3.8k, I don't really see much lag as the car is quite light for a 2L, it's 1270kg and she is a manual. Once on boost it screams to 8k and I don't feel any lag at all, I think a rear mount would be quite lag free with a crossflow mainly because of the torque, keep in mind it can't be less torquey than stock! stock they breath through a tiny carb and even smaller exhaust so with 3.45 gears you will not feel any lag 


If these points weren't true, and rear-mounted was the answer, then manufacturers all over the world making turbo cars, trucks, plant equipment, racing cars, (anything with a turbo) would be doing it.

I merely stated my opinion on why they're popular in certain situations.

Let's face it, 3800 rpm isn't exactly off-idle, and almost halfway to redline. Is that really a useable kind of boost? You then said that it's a light car so lag isn't a problem anyway. If this is an example of what I said is incorrect, it isn't a good one.



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8 hours ago, CHESTNUTXE said:

does anyone no what grind of cam mike vine was using on his turbo set ups ?

I'll have a look today, I've got a new one sitting in a box somewhere.

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11 hours ago, CHESTNUTXE said:

does anyone no what grind of cam mike vine was using on his turbo set ups ?

I've spoken to Mike Vine a few times about his crossflow turbo setups, his opinion was to keep the cam fairly close to stock but grind it to suit a turbo. 

His focus was always drivability over bulk power as he wanted the cars with his kits to behave like they came from the factory, and he prefered stock diff gears 2.92 and 2.77 because of the crossflows good low down torque.

It's a shame his kits are so expensive for the power output, $4600 for the stage 1 drawthrough carb kit, 280hp (he's still doing them but i dont think he'll be alive for much longer he's pretty old now) they would make a great starting point for a custom setup as the manifolds are nicely done and his stage 1 kits are pretty much bolt on, tune and go kits.

The DJR Grand Prix Falcons used a developed version of his Stage 2 carb kits if i recall correctly.

The other downside to his kits is the fact that the supplied turbo is an old TO4B or TO4E depending on the kit, hardly what i would call state of the art these days.

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10 hours ago, gerg said:


 

 


If these points weren't true, and rear-mounted was the answer, then manufacturers all over the world making turbo cars, trucks, plant equipment, racing cars, (anything with a turbo) would be doing it.

I merely stated my opinion on why they're popular in certain situations.

Let's face it, 3800 rpm isn't exactly off-idle, and almost halfway to redline. Is that really a useable kind of boost? You then said that it's a light car so lag isn't a problem anyway. If this is an example of what I said is incorrect, it isn't a good one.



Sent from my CPH1607 using Tapatalk
 

 

well I could go with a TD04 turbo hand have instant boost or even with a twin scroll and loose the burble and have best of both worlds, what I'm saying is that with a 20 year old turbo the damn thing is still fine, it starts to make boost under 3k which is nice, 1.2bar at 3.8k is mental for every day driving hell i can turn the AVC off and pot around town at spring pressure which is 8psi and still faster and less laggy than most 2L econo boxes. Keep in mind that if there is load like going up hill or a heavier car boost comes in a lot quicker! on a slight downhill road I can't even hit .8 bar of boost in 1st gear at redline so with a heavier car then making boost becomes easier

 

The reason rear mounts are not popular today is because they are not efficient compared to the turbo's that are essentially bolted to the head now with literally no manifold so they can have a cat converter almost built into the exhaust housing of the turbo, with an older car you essentially replace the tail muffler with a turbo and have oil pump to keep it lubed up, very cheap when you consider the cost of a manifold made for it that's not made in china out of recycled pepsi cans. 

People have this stupid idea of: ohh it's a Turbo it must have 500HP, oh it's a 2JZ it must have 800HP, oh it's a Barra it should have 1000HP but most of those wouldn't drive such car daily or actually own one! My MK6 GTI can push you in the seat with all it's 170kw, it breaks traction from 1800rpm...and if I get a flat brim and only floor it to 3k around town the flat brim will believe it's a 400hp car :)

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If it wasnt for the stupidly high price of the mike vine kits i would have done one years ago, they look cool and the stage one kits a designed to work on a good low kay stock engine with no mods to the internals other than a decompression plate to lower the comp ratio.

While the power outputs are nothing to rave about, 280hp for the stage 1 and 350hp for the stage 2 kit the torque is very impressive and makes for a lively daily driver.

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Mv does well and im a fan. I have had 2 turbo falcons and both reliable drivers both stock cams and engines bar a decompression plate.

Stage 2 kit in 1993 and the set up I have now in 2016. Can do a flat 13 second pass and barely go over 4000rpm.
I like them but you are right he is getting on in years.

Back in 1993 it cost $5500 so not cheap bank then.

Latest way more than that. Parts $7500 alone



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22 hours ago, dex said:

And straight to turbo before even pg 2  

Lol, pretty much happens with these threads, turboing is easier to do, cheaper and offers better bang for the buck.

However much of the info is interchangeble as supercharging has similar needs to turbo setups.

If you are dead keen on a supercharger i'd still give mike vine a call as he has done lots of force fed crossflows and can give you some good pointers on the engine itself.

You should be able to google him pretty easily.

Im still keen to see what you come up with.

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On 15/01/2018 at 7:19 PM, dex said:

And straight to turbo before even pg 2  

People are so predictable lol. 

Why not a blow thru centrifugal like a Vortex or Paxton. Or the better of them a ProCharger. 

My car will not be NAT ASP forever and the benifits of a ProCharger over a aspo or turbo engine in what “I do” with my car is what I’ll do next. 

Make a easy 650hp run bottom 10’s high 9’s xflow powered and still get props and street cred off the people who matter.

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On ‎15‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 7:19 PM, dex said:

And straight to turbo before even pg 2  

And about 40 posts and 10 days and no contribution from you in your own thread? The superchargers got a good run and some good examples have been shown.

I agree with Sly on the blow thru centrifugal setup if top end it the aim. They are smaller (easier to package) and can go blow thru LPG easily. Cost is still high. I was going to use a Rotrex on mine, but ended up turbo (haha).

If you want to go roots or twin screw style, I would look at PRO250s supercharged XF thread (it might have been on the other forum).

I also like this, still not sold on using this type of blower in a blow thru configuration though:

 

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what about brackets i imagine you will have to fabricate some for the procharger and what side would you put it on ? if no power steer could use the bracket holes as base.

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3 hours ago, CHESTNUTXE said:

what about brackets i imagine you will have to fabricate some for the procharger and what side would you put it on ? if no power steer could use the bracket holes as base.

ProCharger isn’t for you. 

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