E Series Wagon Diff to ZJ. Tailshaft and rpm question.

[TUFZJ 5]

Hi guys.

I have a tail shaft question for the gurus. I have a ZJ V8 with a 2.92 diff, it has broken studs.

So instead of fixing it I thought that I might just upgrade to a newer e series diff with the benefit of it being stronger and better ratios.

I have done a lot of searching and it seems that as long as I use the a wagon diff there is no suspension issues, if I use EB and ED diffs then the hand brake is the same. (I need to pass a rwc so it has to work).

 

My first question is that I can't get a straight answer on tailshafts for the LWB. People say that for the sedans that you need a spacer etc. If I use a wagon tail shaft will it be the right length for the fairlane?

 

Also what ratios did the eb ed wagon have? I don't have a tacho but I think the 2.92 with c4 does about 2400. The car will do a lot of highway driving and will be set up for torque and to cruise. I was thinking either 3.08 or 3.23 but keen to hear people's thoughts and what rpm they do at 100 with these gears.

[bear351c 10,270]

You would have to have both tailshafts side by side to get best info. In the XD,E range, the ute/wagon/fairlane/panel van are all built on the same platform (LTD)

All the other models are sedan platform. From memory, the LTD tailshaft is approx 180 mm longer. Not sure on the length of the EB,D series. 

I thought the ZJ had U-bolts on the tailshaft, you said the studs were broken..?

 

[gerg 10,871]

Wagons should be 3.23, utes 3.27. Dont ask why they're so close but still different, but there you go.

As bear mentioned, ute, wagon and Fairlane all sit on the same wheelbase so use the same tailshafts. The ony longer one from there is P5 & P6 LTDs, which are actually stretched again.

Wagons use ute springs, which are about 5" longer than a sedan's eye-to-eye (from memory).

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[bear351c 10,270]

Yep, forgot about them, The leaf springs are longer in the ute/wagon.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,299]

get yurself a eb or ed wagon diff with 3.08 or 2.92 i have one here out of a ed wagon 5 speed,and grab the tailshaft as well.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,299]

1 hour ago, gerg said:

Wagons should be 3.23, utes 3.27. Dont ask why they're so close but still different, but there you go.

As bear mentioned, ute, wagon and Fairlane all sit on the same wheelbase so use the same tailshafts. The ony longer one from there is P5 & P6 LTDs, which are actually stretched again.

Wagons use ute springs, which are about 5" longer than a sedan's eye-to-eye (from memory).

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i never knew that ute wagon leafs are different lengths to sedan,learn something new everyday.

[TUFZJ 5]

Thanks guys. Yeah a couple of wheel studs are broken so it's a good excuse to put a new diff in.

I was thinking 3.08 or 3.2X for cruising and a bit more torque. Don't want it howling at 100.

Someone said that if using a regular sedan the e series tail shaft Was a different size than X series but I used one in my old XF ok.

I was wondering if the same applies with the LWB but I doubt it.

I was planning on just sticking with the ZJ leafs and just adapting the diff. Do the EB/ED wagon handbrakes just bolt up? I know you need a brake line adaptor. 

[CHESTNUTXE 7,299]

what ever you do ,do not put a 3.27 in there many of us have done this and wish we hadnt,it will be doing 2700 at 100ks,sure its good for take off and fun street use,a 2.92 or 3.08 will be fine,my xf 1992 ute has a 2.92 with 3 speed auto going just a tad more to 3.08 will be the one to get.

[TUFZJ 5]

That's what I was thinking. 3.08 might be a good compromise. How fast will that spin at 100? I think the 2.92 are around the 2400 mark?

 

The upside is that the 3.08 diffs should be cheap and easy to find.

[bear351c 10,270]

3.55 to 1.00 in mine, love it........dont care about revs or fuel economy.    It's a Cleveland. 

3.08 sounds like what you're after. Good mix of cruise and take off. Stick to the TQ carby for economy. 

[CHESTNUTXE 7,299]

$50 to $150 for a diff with brakes and tailshaft,xr six wagon or ute very rare LSD 3.45 ALTHOU you could put a lsd centre with 3.08 would be a very nice diff,is your diff atm a v8 lsd 2.92 ?

[deankxf 20,266]

wheel studs are easy to change.. the ZJ will have LSD and discs, and if you are happy with the revs and all else is good, i'd keep it. it's probably 25spline unless it was factory 351.these are still pretty strong unless you drive like you stole it..

 

the Fairlane is the long tailshaft(Falcon sedan XA to EL  are all short.. can't use it in a fairlane or any other model)

if you were to fit an E series diff for the different ratio, 3.08 isn't much of a jump (i think they are rare in pre EF models anyway)   3.23 is roughly 10% more than 2.92. so in that eg, 2400 rpm plus 10% = 2640 rpm at 100kmh with 3.23. 

if you fit an EA EB ED wagon(or XG XH diff, same thing) then you will need to get the EA EB ED wagon(or XG only ) hand brake cable also.. (otherwise adapting the ZJ cable is a pain in the ass.. i did it once, then found out the other is a direct fit) 

XH handbrake cable is possibly different.. cant remember where the hand brake lever is off the top of my head

[CHESTNUTXE 7,299]

2.92 went all the way until ED i have one here out of  5 speed wag's.

[TUFZJ 5]

Yeah it is LSD and a factory 302 so should be 2.92. It is pretty relaxed on the highway. I guess I'm best off putting new studs in and driving it until it breaks. 

Sounds like when it goes that the 3.08 will be the go when it gives up. I'll just have to get a wagon tail shaft to go with it. At least I know it's an easy option later on and much cheaper than a 9".

Speaking of the TQ earlier. The car has a 600 holley on it which hasn't run for years as it's been on lpg. The car will be a long term project car so I'm thinking about removing the lpg as it won't be available for a long time and sticking to petrol. How are the 600s as a carb? (New to this old v8 stuff) the plan is to build a tough engine (351) with a focus on torque and mainly use it for cruising with a C4

[gerg 10,871]

i never knew that ute wagon leafs are different lengths to sedan,learn something new everyday.

Yep, found that one out the hard way

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[gerg 10,871]

Yeah it is LSD and a factory 302 so should be 2.92. It is pretty relaxed on the highway. I guess I'm best off putting new studs in and driving it until it breaks. 
Sounds like when it goes that the 3.08 will be the go when it gives up. I'll just have to get a wagon tail shaft to go with it. At least I know it's an easy option later on and much cheaper than a 9".
Speaking of the TQ earlier. The car has a 600 holley on it which hasn't run for years as it's been on lpg. The car will be a long term project car so I'm thinking about removing the lpg as it won't be available for a long time and sticking to petrol. How are the 600s as a carb? (New to this old v8 stuff) the plan is to build a tough engine (351) with a focus on torque and mainly use it for cruising with a C4

New studs: 1/2 hour work, about 50 bucks parts.

New diff: several hours work and many questions about compatibility.

At least with your current diff, you know it works. I cruised around with my 25 spline single pegger with no issues behind a mild 302 and T5. In fact, being a single pegger will probably save you from twisting/breaking an axle as one wheel will just slip instead of one poor axle being forced to to push the whole car.

And while you're still mobile, you have the time to get the ratio, brakes, centre, bearings, everything you need spot-on with the new diff, so it's a painless swap when the time comes, not desparately trying to get it all together the night before at 1:30 am with bleeding knuckles and pissed-off neighbours.

600s are ok, performance-wise they're more than enough on a 302 or a mild 351, just dont expect fuel economy. Holleys are expected to just bolt on to anything and work, so are rich just to be sure. They're also a square bore so need adapting to the factory spreadbore manifold, which can cause dramas.

Finding a good working TQ these days is like striking gold. Most people dont even know what they are or at best, dont understand how they work, so just throw them out. Very few parts are available and there are wearing bits on them that cannot be replaced ie: the vacuum piston that works the metering rods wears the main housing out, so the more it wears the more often it sits open, raising the rods more quickly and dumping fuel in. The plastic main body and bowls were notorious for warping and the jet wells were epoxied on, which failed and dumped fuel out the bottom of the carby. The auto choke is a fiddly, and rarely works.

So If you find a good one, use it. If you find one that needs attention, just think whether or not you need a good paperweight.

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[bear351c 10,270]

Put a kit thru the 600, cheap as dirt in the States. As Gerg said, it'll run........

[TUFZJ 5]

Thanks guys. Excellent information. I think you are right, I was getting excited but it's the wrong time. I'll just get some studs and live with it until I'm sure.

Can the 600s be jetted to not be so thirsty or is there a better carby recommendation keeping in mind that I will drive it as a 302 for a while then build a 351 with as much low down torque as I can get in mind.

Which dual plane manifold would you recommend.

Thanks again for your patience with all my questions. I will get a build thread going soon to show progress.

[SLO247 1,713]

You can jet it to suit anything really, they are a universal carb. You can change the power valve, jets and squirter and also the idle mixture. It'll work fine once its set up.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,299]

isnt just fixing the studs putting a new disc rotor on it ? 30 mins max like gerg said

[bear351c 10,270]

The 600 will work fine with a 302 and a 351, Try and find a 2nd hand Edelbrock Performer, easy to fit, trouble free units.  If you want a bigger cam, later on, save up for an Air Gap. 

[TUFZJ 5]

That's great. Thanks guys. Great place to start.

[gerg 10,871]

Eddys are good for beginners or people who hate dicking around with carbs. Set-and-forget.

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