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Demmo

xg fuel pump

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hope someone can help  before I put a match to it   ok over the last week or so the xg would hesitate /not respond on quick acceleration  and has slowly got worse. yesterday it started coughing  missing and would not build up revs  it would cut out  then crank over fire and stall as if out of petrol  it had half a tank at the time now it wont start at all. 

ok have checked all plugs leads ect and have spark at all cylinders

put pressure gauge in fuel line an this seem to be hit an miss pressure nill to about 10 psi

so put new fuel pump (only) and inline filter on still no fuel to rail  tried a second pump complete from the outback that works  same thing

when you turn key on both the pumps whine an then stop  now if the fuel line is removed at the tank I only get a small amount of fuel out each time

so do these fuel pumps need some sought of back pressure to function or would it be possible that the computer lowers the voltage so pump speed is reduced /or increases voltage and I have f  rked 2 fuel pumps

  so is it possible to hotwire the pump to see if it increases the amount of fuel        any suggestions/ideas what it could be    will be appreciated

thanks Demmo

 

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you can hotwire the pump either directly, or by bridging the fat connectors when you remove the relay(green one near brake booster)  

the reason it only puts a small amount of fuel out is for safety(aka, smash into a tree, motor stalls so pump cuts out..less risk of fire) 

it is likely to be a faulty relay(fuel pump relay) but you should be able to check by hotwiring the pump.. i had this issue with My XG was a combination of relay, wiring, ignition switch and fuel pump.. 

otherwise, @Outback Jack or @SPArKy_Dave probably have another 10 things to check? good luck

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thanks for reply   I have 2 grey relays next to the booster so will try swapping them around.   I think someone has played there before as the wires have push on spades  connected straight to each relay an not into a black Bakelite holder like the relays next to battery    anyway will go an re read your posts on your ute thanks again

cheers Demmo

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Dont over think it... XG Electrical systems are very simple.
It could be a fault fuel pressure reg, a faulty relay, or a faulty smart lock module. Those are the three things I'd be going after.

Eliminate the fuel pressure reg and pump, by pulling the relay and hotwiring the pump.
(whilst watching a fuel pressure gauge)

If you can force the pump to run good, then go after either the relay, or the Smart lock module.

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the fn saga continues  pulled fuel lines out found dirt in lines so have blown all lines out  have put another rail complete from the spares vehicle on another fuel filter on 

managed to start it running on 5  pump pressure shows 200 kpa   has spark to all 6 cylinders so pull injector wires off start at no 6  no difference to running  next pull no5 off an motor dies  

pulled injector rail off swapped injectors around  put back on                 started but does not idle misses and wants to die  manage to get revs up around 2000 and it seems fine

turn off     to restart turns over try's to start and when its turning over faster than starter motor then dies  after 5  6 attempts it starts  missing badly  then it starts  same sequence again ok at high revs  refuses to run at lower revs and cuts out as now it wont idle long enough to pull wires off six injector

pump pressure stays at 200 kpa when running but falls to 0 when motor stops  if I blank return line off  crank motor an as it fires an runs for the 20  secs or so fuel pressure reads around 400kpa  motor stops running the pressure drops to 0   on the xh the fuel rail had a pressure of around 380kpa and maintained that pressure even when not running   so have I somehow missed a non return valve between tank an pressure regulator or is the xh xg fuel systems the same ?

o an dave  you say   "Dont over think it... XG Electrical systems are very simple.?   ark me think you meant to say the operator is...........simple

so can someone tell me where this idiot is going wrong  an maybe some further suggestions to try  before this white haired old fart relives  guy fox night

Edited by Demmo
missed word

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Yeah it is simple -
only 4 things govern the ability for fuel pressure to bleed down.

An external leak
A faulty fuel pressure regulator

A stuck open fuel injector
Or
A faulty non-return valve in the fuel pump.

Sounds like you've eliminated the first two, so you have either a stuck injector, or a dud pump.

Given your fuel injector issues with the engine missing,
my money is on a stuck injector.

Pull the fuel rail, and get a container on the end of each injector.
(Isolate the ignition coil obviously)
turn the ign to on so the fuel pump primes, and see if any injectors leak.
Then crank the engine, and observe again, to see if they're all pulsing in some realm of normality.

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Yeah it is simple -
only 4 things govern the ability for fuel pressure to bleed down.
An external leak
A faulty fuel pressure regulator
A stuck open fuel injector
Or
A faulty non-return valve in the fuel pump.
Sounds like you've eliminated the first two, so you have either a stuck injector, or a dud pump.
Given your fuel injector issues with the engine missing,
my money is on a stuck injector.
Pull the fuel rail, and get a container on the end of each injector.
(Isolate the ignition coil obviously)
turn the ign to on so the fuel pump primes, and see if any injectors leak.
Then crank the engine, and observe again, to see if they're all pulsing in some realm of normality.
Thanks guys. Will follow your suggestions. So I am right in assuming that the fuel rail should hold pressure same as the xh when motor off Cheers Demmo


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Thats it mate.... think acceptable leakdown... but over hours.... is why it primes pumps before start,
makes sure rail is at pressure.

Mate if ya need any diagrams or stuff..... I got it all here.. can post them up for ya.

Goodluck mate.

Jack.


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Thats it mate.... think acceptable leakdown... but over hours.... is why it primes pumps before start,
makes sure rail is at pressure.

Mate if ya need any diagrams or stuff..... I got it all here.. can post them up for ya.

Goodluck mate.

Jack.


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Cheers mate. Ok update
Pulled fuel rail off done what sparky Dave suggested turn key on off no fuel evident .Repeated couple times.
Crank motor an fuel pumped through. Cranked about half minute check levels in jars ok Started it ran good after 4 or 5 mins started missing again
Left it over night started let it idle for about 5 mins. And started missing again could this now be a electrical fault? Or have 1 several problems all at same time
Cheers demmo

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Bizarre.
Keep in mind that the ecu uses a PIP signal from the distributor as a reference as when to inject fuel. It could be wiring from the module on the dizzy back to the ecu.
Is the module replaceable or is it part of the dizzy. The dizzy tps an coil are the only things I haven't swapped/ replaced so far and the computer box on pillar does the wires go from module into the harness to com box an from there back to each injector
As I can't see any junction in the wire harness. Thanks for your input too
Cheers demmo

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Do you still have the issue of fuel pressure bleeding off straight away,
as soon as you stop the engine?
 
Yes Dave the pressure drops to zero but when engine runs it's steady at 200. Do you reckon it be a fuel prob or combination of electrical as well it now runs fine when it's cold but goes to shite once motor warms up

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Pinch off the fuel return line, before you stop the engine, then see if the pressure still bleeds off.

If it still bleeds off, and you've confirmed no injectors are sticking open, (I'd double check for sticking injectors, after the engine is warmed up a bit)
then the fuel pump is faulty.

I'd fix the pump first, then go after the next issue.

 

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Ok Will buy another pump while I am in perth today an I will grab a couple of metres of hose for vac just in case it split. It won't go astray as I still working on outback . Vaccume hose be 1/8 ? Hope repco know

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Is the module replaceable or is it part of the dizzy. The dizzy tps an coil are the only things I haven't swapped/ replaced so far and the computer box on pillar does the wires go from module into the harness to com box an from there back to each injector
As I can't see any junction in the wire harness. Thanks for your input too
Cheers demmo

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It is removable. I'd see if you can find a good secondhand genuine distributor complete, as Bosch ones are no longer available new. Personally I'm not a fan of the aftermarket ones despite what people say they don't last. Id replace the whole distributor as everything will be fairly worn and you'll end up getting the shits replacing individual components and bushes.
A genuine one should give you around 240,000km trouble free motoring.

In relation to fuel pressure reg, all fuel pressure regulators will release at 250kpa other than xr6 which is 325kpa.

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You can still get 99% of the parts for rebuilding your original distributor, and to keep it date code correct.
Contact Performance Ignition in Victoria.
They were contracted by Bosch, to assemble the last batches of the Australian Made OEM Bosch dizzy's.

If you search around, you should easily find stock of them still, unless you prefer to rebuild your original one.

Performance Ignition, have all the small parts (bronze bushes, screws, o-rings and soforth), and can still supply everything genuine/oem Bosch,
apart from new dizzy gears, and new chopper wheels.

And as per above, stay right away from the chinese copy dizzys.
Apart from their unreliable hall effect sensors and TFI modules, their dizzy gear's on the bottom were often incorrectly made,
and didn't mesh correctly with the Auxillary shaft inside the motor.

Over time, that gear mis-alignment strips the Aux, shaft - usually resulting in engine failure.

Either new genuine bosch or rebuild your original, is the only way.
I'd start with the fuel pump first though. :)

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You can still get 99% of the parts for rebuilding your original distributor, and to keep it date code correct.
Contact Performance Ignition in Victoria.
They were contracted by Bosch, to assemble the last batches of the Australian Made OEM Bosch dizzy's.

If you search around, you should easily find stock of them still, unless you prefer to rebuild your original one.
Performance Ignition, have all the small parts (bronze bushes, screws, o-rings and soforth), and can still supply everything genuine/oem Bosch,
apart from new dizzy gears, and new chopper wheels.
And as per above, stay right away from the chinese copy dizzys.
Apart from their unreliable hall effect sensors and TFI modules, their dizzy gear's on the bottom were often incorrectly made,
and didn't mesh correctly with the Auxillary shaft inside the motor.
Over time, that gear mis-alignment strips the Aux, shaft - usually resulting in engine failure.

Either new genuine bosch or rebuild your original, is the only way.
I'd start with the fuel pump first though.

I've seen performance ignition advertising their rebuilt distributors on eBay, $250 exchange. I wasn't sure if they used genuine Bosch components or not.
https://www.ebay.com.au/i/222569602865
So Dave, they only use genuine Bosch components? If so I'll be buying one!

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Ok we can now remove pump out of equation New pump in. primed pump up to 200 kpa. Started run till motor warmed up Then it starts missing again grr line pressure stayed at about 210 kpa after shutdown So the last New ebay pump faulty so 3rd time lucky So now on hunt for a dizzy Have New leads coil a t.p.s and oxy sensor ordered So the elimination continues
Thanks people for your input so far
Cheers demmo

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Demmo,
Mate, do you have any heatsink paste around?

The module on side of dizzy has heatsink paste between it and dizzy body.... sometimes if its farked the module can overheat.....causing firing problems.
Its a simple fix if thats it.
Scrape old stuff off and put new shit on and screw down tight.
I've never had a problem but it would explain why it does it when warmed up.

Do you have a spare map sensor? Definately look for a prob there.

I think I got my dizzy on ebay mate... just look for genuine bosch dizzy for xg.... still out there... got one in mine... from memory 150-180.
Wasn't too exxy.

As said above.... cheap chinese ones spell death... lol

Jack.

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Demmo,
Mate, do you have any heatsink paste around?

The module on side of dizzy has heatsink paste between it and dizzy body.... sometimes if its farked the module can overheat.....causing firing problems.
Its a simple fix if thats it.
Scrape old stuff off and put new shit on and screw down tight.
I've never had a problem but it would explain why it does it when warmed up.

Do you have a spare map sensor? Definately look for a prob there.

I think I got my dizzy on ebay mate... just look for genuine bosch dizzy for xg.... still out there... got one in mine... from memory 150-180.
Wasn't too exxy.

As said above.... cheap chinese ones spell death... lol

Jack.

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Good advice here.
Just wear disposable gloves when using that paste. It's incredibly carcinogenic!

Jack I remember you buying your Bosch dizzy, new ones are thin on the ground now!
Treat it like gold!!

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