Demmo 295 Posted September 9, 2017 hope someone can help before I put a match to it ok over the last week or so the xg would hesitate /not respond on quick acceleration and has slowly got worse. yesterday it started coughing missing and would not build up revs it would cut out then crank over fire and stall as if out of petrol it had half a tank at the time now it wont start at all. ok have checked all plugs leads ect and have spark at all cylinders put pressure gauge in fuel line an this seem to be hit an miss pressure nill to about 10 psi so put new fuel pump (only) and inline filter on still no fuel to rail tried a second pump complete from the outback that works same thing when you turn key on both the pumps whine an then stop now if the fuel line is removed at the tank I only get a small amount of fuel out each time so do these fuel pumps need some sought of back pressure to function or would it be possible that the computer lowers the voltage so pump speed is reduced /or increases voltage and I have f rked 2 fuel pumps so is it possible to hotwire the pump to see if it increases the amount of fuel any suggestions/ideas what it could be will be appreciated thanks Demmo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deankxf 20,233 Posted September 9, 2017 you can hotwire the pump either directly, or by bridging the fat connectors when you remove the relay(green one near brake booster) the reason it only puts a small amount of fuel out is for safety(aka, smash into a tree, motor stalls so pump cuts out..less risk of fire) it is likely to be a faulty relay(fuel pump relay) but you should be able to check by hotwiring the pump.. i had this issue with My XG was a combination of relay, wiring, ignition switch and fuel pump.. otherwise, @Outback Jack or @SPArKy_Dave probably have another 10 things to check? good luck 1 Valvebouncer reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Demmo 295 Posted September 9, 2017 thanks for reply I have 2 grey relays next to the booster so will try swapping them around. I think someone has played there before as the wires have push on spades connected straight to each relay an not into a black Bakelite holder like the relays next to battery anyway will go an re read your posts on your ute thanks again cheers Demmo 1 Outback Jack reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SPArKy_Dave 8,831 Posted September 9, 2017 Dont over think it... XG Electrical systems are very simple. It could be a fault fuel pressure reg, a faulty relay, or a faulty smart lock module. Those are the three things I'd be going after. Eliminate the fuel pressure reg and pump, by pulling the relay and hotwiring the pump. (whilst watching a fuel pressure gauge) If you can force the pump to run good, then go after either the relay, or the Smart lock module. 2 Outback Jack and Valvebouncer reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SPArKy_Dave 8,831 Posted September 9, 2017 The XG Fuel pump relays live next to the battery. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Demmo 295 Posted October 1, 2017 (edited) the fn saga continues pulled fuel lines out found dirt in lines so have blown all lines out have put another rail complete from the spares vehicle on another fuel filter on managed to start it running on 5 pump pressure shows 200 kpa has spark to all 6 cylinders so pull injector wires off start at no 6 no difference to running next pull no5 off an motor dies pulled injector rail off swapped injectors around put back on started but does not idle misses and wants to die manage to get revs up around 2000 and it seems fine turn off to restart turns over try's to start and when its turning over faster than starter motor then dies after 5 6 attempts it starts missing badly then it starts same sequence again ok at high revs refuses to run at lower revs and cuts out as now it wont idle long enough to pull wires off six injector pump pressure stays at 200 kpa when running but falls to 0 when motor stops if I blank return line off crank motor an as it fires an runs for the 20 secs or so fuel pressure reads around 400kpa motor stops running the pressure drops to 0 on the xh the fuel rail had a pressure of around 380kpa and maintained that pressure even when not running so have I somehow missed a non return valve between tank an pressure regulator or is the xh xg fuel systems the same ? o an dave you say "Dont over think it... XG Electrical systems are very simple.? ark me think you meant to say the operator is...........simple so can someone tell me where this idiot is going wrong an maybe some further suggestions to try before this white haired old fart relives guy fox night Edited October 1, 2017 by Demmo missed word 1 Outback Jack reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Valvebouncer 2,389 Posted October 2, 2017 This is going to sound dumb but are you sure you have the fuel lines around the right way at the rail? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SPArKy_Dave 8,831 Posted October 2, 2017 Yeah it is simple - only 4 things govern the ability for fuel pressure to bleed down. An external leak A faulty fuel pressure regulator A stuck open fuel injector Or A faulty non-return valve in the fuel pump. Sounds like you've eliminated the first two, so you have either a stuck injector, or a dud pump. Given your fuel injector issues with the engine missing, my money is on a stuck injector. Pull the fuel rail, and get a container on the end of each injector. (Isolate the ignition coil obviously) turn the ign to on so the fuel pump primes, and see if any injectors leak. Then crank the engine, and observe again, to see if they're all pulsing in some realm of normality. 2 Outback Jack and Valvebouncer reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Demmo 295 Posted October 2, 2017 Yeah it is simple - only 4 things govern the ability for fuel pressure to bleed down. An external leak A faulty fuel pressure regulator A stuck open fuel injector Or A faulty non-return valve in the fuel pump. Sounds like you've eliminated the first two, so you have either a stuck injector, or a dud pump. Given your fuel injector issues with the engine missing, my money is on a stuck injector. Pull the fuel rail, and get a container on the end of each injector. (Isolate the ignition coil obviously) turn the ign to on so the fuel pump primes, and see if any injectors leak. Then crank the engine, and observe again, to see if they're all pulsing in some realm of normality.Thanks guys. Will follow your suggestions. So I am right in assuming that the fuel rail should hold pressure same as the xh when motor off Cheers DemmoSent from my HUAWEI LYO-L02 using Tapatalk 2 Outback Jack and Valvebouncer reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outback Jack 6,352 Posted October 2, 2017 Thats it mate.... think acceptable leakdown... but over hours.... is why it primes pumps before start,makes sure rail is at pressure.Mate if ya need any diagrams or stuff..... I got it all here.. can post them up for ya.Goodluck mate.Jack.Sent from my GT-S7583T using Tapatalk 1 Valvebouncer reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Demmo 295 Posted October 3, 2017 Thats it mate.... think acceptable leakdown... but over hours.... is why it primes pumps before start,makes sure rail is at pressure.Mate if ya need any diagrams or stuff..... I got it all here.. can post them up for ya.Goodluck mate.Jack.Sent from my GT-S7583T using TapatalkCheers mate. Ok updatePulled fuel rail off done what sparky Dave suggested turn key on off no fuel evident .Repeated couple times.Crank motor an fuel pumped through. Cranked about half minute check levels in jars ok Started it ran good after 4 or 5 mins started missing againLeft it over night started let it idle for about 5 mins. And started missing again could this now be a electrical fault? Or have 1 several problems all at same time Cheers demmoSent from my HUAWEI LYO-L02 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Valvebouncer 2,389 Posted October 3, 2017 Bizarre.Keep in mind that the ecu uses a PIP signal from the distributor as a reference as when to inject fuel. It could be wiring from the module on the dizzy back to the ecu. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Demmo 295 Posted October 3, 2017 Bizarre.Keep in mind that the ecu uses a PIP signal from the distributor as a reference as when to inject fuel. It could be wiring from the module on the dizzy back to the ecu.Is the module replaceable or is it part of the dizzy. The dizzy tps an coil are the only things I haven't swapped/ replaced so far and the computer box on pillar does the wires go from module into the harness to com box an from there back to each injector As I can't see any junction in the wire harness. Thanks for your input tooCheers demmoSent from my HUAWEI LYO-L02 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SPArKy_Dave 8,831 Posted October 4, 2017 Do you still have the issue of fuel pressure bleeding off straight away, as soon as you stop the engine? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Demmo 295 Posted October 4, 2017 Do you still have the issue of fuel pressure bleeding off straight away, as soon as you stop the engine? Yes Dave the pressure drops to zero but when engine runs it's steady at 200. Do you reckon it be a fuel prob or combination of electrical as well it now runs fine when it's cold but goes to shite once motor warms up Sent from my HUAWEI LYO-L02 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thom 6,642 Posted October 4, 2017 Check the vacuum line from the fuel pressure reg to the intake is connected on both ends and doesn't have any splits 1 Outback Jack reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SPArKy_Dave 8,831 Posted October 4, 2017 Pinch off the fuel return line, before you stop the engine, then see if the pressure still bleeds off. If it still bleeds off, and you've confirmed no injectors are sticking open, (I'd double check for sticking injectors, after the engine is warmed up a bit) then the fuel pump is faulty. I'd fix the pump first, then go after the next issue. 1 Outback Jack reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outback Jack 6,352 Posted October 4, 2017 Agree with Dave demmo... sounds like non return in pump is faulty or ya have a loose pump fitting.Sent from my GT-S7583T using Tapatalk 1 SPArKy_Dave reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Demmo 295 Posted October 4, 2017 Ok Will buy another pump while I am in perth today an I will grab a couple of metres of hose for vac just in case it split. It won't go astray as I still working on outback . Vaccume hose be 1/8 ? Hope repco knowSent from my HUAWEI LYO-L02 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Valvebouncer 2,389 Posted October 4, 2017 Is the module replaceable or is it part of the dizzy. The dizzy tps an coil are the only things I haven't swapped/ replaced so far and the computer box on pillar does the wires go from module into the harness to com box an from there back to each injector As I can't see any junction in the wire harness. Thanks for your input tooCheers demmoSent from my HUAWEI LYO-L02 using TapatalkIt is removable. I'd see if you can find a good secondhand genuine distributor complete, as Bosch ones are no longer available new. Personally I'm not a fan of the aftermarket ones despite what people say they don't last. Id replace the whole distributor as everything will be fairly worn and you'll end up getting the shits replacing individual components and bushes.A genuine one should give you around 240,000km trouble free motoring.In relation to fuel pressure reg, all fuel pressure regulators will release at 250kpa other than xr6 which is 325kpa. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SPArKy_Dave 8,831 Posted October 4, 2017 You can still get 99% of the parts for rebuilding your original distributor, and to keep it date code correct. Contact Performance Ignition in Victoria. They were contracted by Bosch, to assemble the last batches of the Australian Made OEM Bosch dizzy's. If you search around, you should easily find stock of them still, unless you prefer to rebuild your original one. Performance Ignition, have all the small parts (bronze bushes, screws, o-rings and soforth), and can still supply everything genuine/oem Bosch, apart from new dizzy gears, and new chopper wheels. And as per above, stay right away from the chinese copy dizzys. Apart from their unreliable hall effect sensors and TFI modules, their dizzy gear's on the bottom were often incorrectly made, and didn't mesh correctly with the Auxillary shaft inside the motor. Over time, that gear mis-alignment strips the Aux, shaft - usually resulting in engine failure. Either new genuine bosch or rebuild your original, is the only way. I'd start with the fuel pump first though. 2 Outback Jack and Valvebouncer reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Valvebouncer 2,389 Posted October 4, 2017 You can still get 99% of the parts for rebuilding your original distributor, and to keep it date code correct. Contact Performance Ignition in Victoria. They were contracted by Bosch, to assemble the last batches of the Australian Made OEM Bosch dizzy's. If you search around, you should easily find stock of them still, unless you prefer to rebuild your original one. Performance Ignition, have all the small parts (bronze bushes, screws, o-rings and soforth), and can still supply everything genuine/oem Bosch, apart from new dizzy gears, and new chopper wheels. And as per above, stay right away from the chinese copy dizzys. Apart from their unreliable hall effect sensors and TFI modules, their dizzy gear's on the bottom were often incorrectly made, and didn't mesh correctly with the Auxillary shaft inside the motor. Over time, that gear mis-alignment strips the Aux, shaft - usually resulting in engine failure. Either new genuine bosch or rebuild your original, is the only way. I'd start with the fuel pump first though. I've seen performance ignition advertising their rebuilt distributors on eBay, $250 exchange. I wasn't sure if they used genuine Bosch components or not.https://www.ebay.com.au/i/222569602865 So Dave, they only use genuine Bosch components? If so I'll be buying one! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Demmo 295 Posted October 4, 2017 Ok we can now remove pump out of equation New pump in. primed pump up to 200 kpa. Started run till motor warmed up Then it starts missing again grr line pressure stayed at about 210 kpa after shutdown So the last New ebay pump faulty so 3rd time lucky So now on hunt for a dizzy Have New leads coil a t.p.s and oxy sensor ordered So the elimination continues Thanks people for your input so far Cheers demmoSent from my HUAWEI LYO-L02 using Tapatalk 3 Outback Jack, SPArKy_Dave and Valvebouncer reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outback Jack 6,352 Posted October 4, 2017 Demmo, Mate, do you have any heatsink paste around?The module on side of dizzy has heatsink paste between it and dizzy body.... sometimes if its farked the module can overheat.....causing firing problems.Its a simple fix if thats it.Scrape old stuff off and put new shit on and screw down tight.I've never had a problem but it would explain why it does it when warmed up.Do you have a spare map sensor? Definately look for a prob there.I think I got my dizzy on ebay mate... just look for genuine bosch dizzy for xg.... still out there... got one in mine... from memory 150-180.Wasn't too exxy.As said above.... cheap chinese ones spell death... lolJack.Sent from my GT-S7583T using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Valvebouncer 2,389 Posted October 5, 2017 Demmo, Mate, do you have any heatsink paste around?The module on side of dizzy has heatsink paste between it and dizzy body.... sometimes if its farked the module can overheat.....causing firing problems.Its a simple fix if thats it.Scrape old stuff off and put new shit on and screw down tight.I've never had a problem but it would explain why it does it when warmed up.Do you have a spare map sensor? Definately look for a prob there.I think I got my dizzy on ebay mate... just look for genuine bosch dizzy for xg.... still out there... got one in mine... from memory 150-180.Wasn't too exxy.As said above.... cheap chinese ones spell death... lolJack.Sent from my GT-S7583T using TapatalkGood advice here.Just wear disposable gloves when using that paste. It's incredibly carcinogenic!Jack I remember you buying your Bosch dizzy, new ones are thin on the ground now!Treat it like gold!! 1 Outback Jack reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites