no spark when hot

[broken-wheel 659]

So today i pulled the car out of storage and wanted to drive it a bit. Fuel about 8 months old but started fine with some fresh fuel in carb. Idled fine after took it out and after a few min it died. Has fuel weak spark, let it cool down and starts right up, once engine hot i put the timing light on it to check timing, solid 12 at idle then warms up and i was loosing spark again. This is the old carb without EST with the chopper wheel dizzy. Haven't taken the cover off the side of the dizzy to look yet but it's normally the module or coil?

 

This one car that I don't want to modify with any after market ignition or parts ...

 

 

[dex 2,065]

Is the coil hot when the car stops ,,?

 

Coil or condencer

[broken-wheel 659]

not really, the engine barely gets hot, the coil is warm to the touch maybe say 40 degree C

 

when cold car idles fine and drives fine for about 3min then dies, with the timing light on it you can see how the strobe goes away then within few sec the car stops

[dex 2,065]

Hows the carbon tip on the inside of your dizzy cap ,,?

 

No gum on the brass strip of the rotor ,, " like a waxy deposit " ?

 

Even rust on the dizzy shaft where the rotor " buttons " on ,,?

[broken-wheel 659]

looks good, pulled it all apart and gave it a good clean but it wasn't dirty at all, last time I drove it was about 8 months ago maybe 9, towed the boat went fishing then back home and parked it. Today put about 15L in it, sprayed some fuel down the carb as it would of been bone dry and she started right up then after 5min died, could not get it to start, back fired through the carb a few times so went to eat something, came back after a few hours an started straight up. Put a timing light on it and was rock steady then lost the strobe and died, could not re-started it.

 

I have a few TFI dizzy's and an MSD but don't really want to hack it, it even has the AM stereo and spare wheel, car done under 140k

[deankxf 20,278]

i'd try another coil or the module on the dizzy if you have any available.. i have had both give issues described above.

sounds coil to Me if i was going for one thing only

[bear351c 10,270]

Agreed.  But, I'm leaning towards Ign module.  Most coil probs I've had, they either work, or they don't. 

[SPArKy_Dave 8,869]

Ignition module, pickup coil in the distributor, or coil

[broken-wheel 659]

put the ohms meter over the -Ve +Ve and bad pickup, got none so the msd will go in ....the tfi dizzy uses different leads so left it at that

[broken-wheel 659]

...and the MSD is in, missed the buzzing noise of the digital suckers

any off the shelf plugs that fit the EST dizzy plug? I fitted a TFI dizzy with the EST plug but atm I'm using small spade connectors as I got no idea where to get a plug for it, closet thing i found was https://www.efihardware.com/products/349/connector-distributor-3-pin-plug but they say it's vertical pin out

 

if all else fails i can probably rewire the module and use a 2 pin deutsch connector for + and PIP and short wire to the adjustment screw for earth 

[BryceVR 13]

i'll bet a 6pack that it's the coil.

When they begin to fail temerature will shit them in a hurry, not just hot but warm.

measure one, put it in the oven at 80*C and measure it again.... shot coil.

They're cheap, spring for a new one.

I won't even begin with litany of issues that went back to just a coil.

Put a plug on the coil output and ground it, away from fuel, farts and anything else that might try to ignite.
Crank it a second or so and you'll get lightening, if it's just a zippo lighter then your coil is shot. If you crank for about 20 seconds and the spark fades, your coil is shot.

If you have a heart attack from the shock remember that this was only advice and I absolve myself of all responsibility and your coil is probably good.

[BryceVR 13]

Since you're already scewing around and getting dirty just put an electronic dizzy and a new coil.

Problem solved and an upgrade to boot.

That's my 2 bob.

B

the msd is a waste of time under 6k any way.

 

[BryceVR 13]

If you want good spark Go EDIS and a chopper wheel.

Particularly with ethanol etc as it likes a bigger bang to get it excited enough.

A well set-up std electronic system will see you through 6K and if you need more than that you're not asking questions on this forum.

[BryceVR 13]

...and the MSD is in, missed the buzzing noise of the digital suckers

any off the shelf plugs that fit the EST dizzy plug? I fitted a TFI dizzy with the EST plug but atm I'm using small spade connectors as I got no idea where to get a plug for it, closet thing i found was https://www.efihardware.com/products/349/connector-distributor-3-pin-plug but they say it's vertical pin out

 

if all else fails i can probably rewire the module and use a 2 pin deutsch connector for + and PIP and short wire to the adjustment screw for earth 

Why on earth are you using something so complicated on an engine that in a sceaming hissy fit gets to 6K.

Really, do the math not the internet blurb.

Dodgy up an EDIS if you want a good system, curves etc but .....really?

[broken-wheel 659]

Because by mid winter this engine will run 11's the dizzy leads and coil were original items, from 83...

[BryceVR 13]

It runs exactly nowhere right now.
You're point?
Mine is, start with a good basic setup.
Fix the weak points, not imagine problems. You'll run 10's with a good EDIS.
But right now you can't get it out of the shed.
Get it out of the shed, you are solving a problem that doesn't need to even exist.
Get it as fast as you can until the ignition is an issue, then address the ignition.
Put on a good simple system and get it dialed in and then you will see where you need the mods.

 

A good standard electronic setup will run 6K all day, a Crossie definitely won't.

 

If you're running avgas or over 11.5:1 then what are you doing here?
 

[BryceVR 13]

I dream of 11's too

But under 2:20 on panorama is my goal.

For that I need brakes, chasis and throttle control, we'll go there in another chapter.

I've got MSD's, megaJolts, and about everything that's ever been sold.
A good Electronic will do 99.9 % of mods.
Then coil pack MegaJolt with a chopper wheel.
Biggest waste of money I ever spent was the MSD, (apart from triple webers) it wasn't bad but just several hundred dollars that I could have soldered up myself and then it was a hundred miles behind a megaJolt in configuration options.

[broken-wheel 659]

well the MSD fixed it, had to wait a bit for the USB adapter so i can fix the ignition curves, the 7 series is a bit different, it don't have 1 ignition curve it has 3-6, one per gear either via wire switch or RPM drop so I made one good curve and copied to all the gears, set max gears to 2 and she is good now

 

has a little valve noise, unleaded head, haven't used valve saver for 10.000km

 

2:20 is good at Mnt Rama, I got to 1:1.34 around the QR sprint track in an X series, wasn't easy but they are light and can outbrake 80% of the cars, i reckon with a set of good 245 R888 in the rear it would of gone faster, i was using 270's never got them hot enough and the front springs were never what Kmac was told to make

[BryceVR 13]

Getting the curve on an MSD was a nightmare
Good to see you got it sorted though.
I always go to absolute basics and then work the problem, was yours a coil in the end?

[BryceVR 13]

2:20 is good at Mnt Rama, I got to 1:1.34 around the QR sprint track in an X series, wasn't easy but they are light and can outbrake 80% of the cars, i reckon with a set of good 245 R888 in the rear it would of gone faster, i was using 270's never got them hot enough and the front springs were never what Kmac was told to make

I only run Bathurst, Wakefield and Eastern creek and then mainly with a formula Vee.

The Corty keeps getting delayed.

Look at a Coil-on-plug or coil pak solution though.

Cheers

[broken-wheel 659]

not sure but the old dizzy had a bad pickup and didn't have any chopper style dizzy's around, so had to use the msd with the TFI

 

once you figure out how to pull timing the MSD are piece of piece, you do have a few benefits just don't get jolted by one of the 7 series ... 1amp and 40.000 volts HURT

[BryceVR 13]

well the MSD fixed it, had to wait a bit for the USB adapter so i can fix the ignition curves, the 7 series is a bit different, it don't have 1 ignition curve it has 3-6, one per gear either via wire switch or RPM drop so I made one good curve and copied to all the gears, set max gears to 2 and she is good now

 

Why didn't the MSD give youa base curve?

[broken-wheel 659]

the TFI dizzy is fixed  and the 7531 MSD is fully programable, by default they come with 0 timing so you just advance the dizzy to 35degrees and pull timing with the MSD, the MSD can only pull timing.

 

the issue with the 7 series is that it has 3 wires for 3 speeds, one curve per gear so if you don't use that feature you will need to copy one curve to all the gears

[BryceVR 13]

 

 

1amp and 40.000 volts HURT

Yup it sits you on your arse in a hurry

[BryceVR 13]

the TFI dizzy is fixed  and the 7531 MSD is fully programable, by default they come with 0 timing so you just advance the dizzy to 35degrees and pull timing with the MSD, the MSD can only pull timing.

 

the issue with the 7 series is that it has 3 wires for 3 speeds, one curve per gear so if you don't use that feature you will need to copy one curve to all the gears

So how does it trigger from gearbox? or does it assume sequential shidfts need different curves?