Panko's Mk1 Escort (Round 2)

[deankxf 20,286]

37 minutes ago, 2redrovers said:

Ah fair enough, been a while and didn't remember if you had changed it or not. Which one did you install?

Another possible factor to rule out, is the fuel getting sacked back from the carbie and line in the cold weather? I remember you had issues with expansion in the summer, maybe getting the opposite in winter?

could fit an electric fuel pump for that.. or a petrol fuel lockoff (like lpg cars have) (and hide it and put a switch inside for anti theft/unflooding help)

[Panko 2,480]

No resister in line. Made sure i ran the correct GT40 coil. 

I went with a knock of Lucas distributor. So you can buy the bits to convert a standard points Lucas to electronic, or buy ebay special brand new electronic dizzys which are a Lucas copy. Thats what i did, quite a popular one. 

I still have a small issue with expansion/pressurising the fuel tank, but not as bad now. That i think will be to do with the tank breather under the car. 

Ill go out and start it up again today see if i have any luck. 

[Panko 2,480]

Ok so i tried to start the car, and today it decided to really kick up a stink. 

Took a good 10 minutes to get it to go. Tried the usual, pump throttle once, crank. No good. Just started draining battery. Hooked the extra battery up, cranked still no good. Actually started to drain the extra battery lol. 

Anyway I persisted with it, and it started to fire but again got a little slow cranking, so had to leave it to charge up again for a minute at a time. Eventually when it was getting close, it slowed down again, so left it for a minute, then flicked the key and it came to life. 

It was almost like all of a sudden the engine freed up. So im wondering if its flooding the cylinders, causing it to essentially hydrolock or up the cylinder compression so much the starter cant turn the engine over fast enough to fight the hydrolocking sensation. And when it fires eventually easily, its like the excess fuel has finally cleared and allows it to come to life. 

I let it sit and idle for about half hr. guaranteed i can go to it any time today and it will start at the flick of the key now 

[deankxf 20,286]

what was it like with the original carby?
is the starter motor on its way out? cranking slow might be its only issue..
float level too high? needle and seat being overcome.. fuel tank pressureising causing it to flood by petrol pushing past the needle n seat?(undo the fuel hose and put a bolt in it  for next times test?.. using just the fuel in the carby bowl to start it next time)

[Panko 2,480]

1 hour ago, deankdx said:

what was it like with the original carby?
is the starter motor on its way out? cranking slow might be its only issue..
float level too high? needle and seat being overcome.. fuel tank pressureising causing it to flood by petrol pushing past the needle n seat?(undo the fuel hose and put a bolt in it  for next times test?.. using just the fuel in the carby bowl to start it next time)

with the original carby, it would start at the flick of a key. BUT, i never had to try start it during winter. during warmer months, it will tend to start pretty easy with the weber also. 

Starter is ok, it could be the cabling going to the starter thats not helping. 
Float level should be pretty close. (.5mm out) The carby came from an 1100cc Renault. According to Haymes Weber workshop manual, the Renault 10 S (1100cc engine) and the Escort 1300GT, ran near identical needle and float specs, in the identical carby. Providing this one hasn't been played with, it should be pretty much right. 

as for the fuel tank pressurising, it only happens when driving along or warm. not when its cold. 

I know the carby needs a rebuild. I mean come on, i was pushing my luck i think expecting a carby that had been sitting unused for 30+ years to work just fine haha. obviously now its been used, the seals are all starting to leak a bit. 

[Panko 2,480]

while i left the car idling this morning, i did some more drilling in my heat shield for in front of radiator. 

its now at 17% exposed via 40mm holes. it should be pretty dam close now. Im itching to try it, but ill do the right thing and wait until the weekend, when the weather is supposed to be better. 

 

[2redrovers 21,400]

Nananananananana-pankman!

Lol couldn't help myself

[Panko 2,480]

bahaha  

[SPArKy_Dave 8,870]

Have you confirmed the distributor advance mechanism is free and operating correctly?
Slow starting, sounds awfully like an engine that's over advanced in the timing.

It may be worth doing a mini reco, on the dizzy?

[Panko 2,480]

I very much doubt its the dizzy. It was brand new less than 10 months ago. Leads and plugs less than 6 months old. 

I know its advancing, because i feel it when im driving it. Comes on power at around 3500rpm. Im not going to discount it, but at the same time, my gut is telling me its a mix of voltage loss, cold temperatures, and the carby needing a rebuild. 

i ordered my suspension bits today, i should see them by monday or tuesday next week. So thats front springs, adjustable front shocks to match the rears, and the collars for the eccentric strut tops. A bit of paint on the strut legs, and the tops, and on the hubs when i pull them off the car, and the struts will pretty much be brand new. 

Then its just the steering rack that needs doing, and the front end will be all brand new. 

[Panko 2,480]

I had to do some minor repairs a little while ago to my little microphone i use with the GoPro, so last saturday when I took the Escort out to the RSOCV dyno day, i figured it would be a good time to test the mic. 

This is a bit of footage i took when merging back onto east link after a quick stop to check temps. see when its running the right temp, its smooth, and happy to rev. 1300 Kent at full noise turning over at 5000rpm, is just a nice sound if you ask me  

edit: *i apologise for the wind noise, i forgot to wind up my window* 

[Panko 2,480]

so between helping dad prep the new garage's floor for paint tomorrow, i was playing around with the car today. had a bit of a read through the workshop manual specific to weber carburettors, and realised there was a good chance i was running the car way too rich. so had a play with tuning the mixtures, and sure enough I was running it waaaaaaaaay too rich. 
for the first time since running the weber, I've got the thing to idle pretty smooth at the correct idle speed. generally the only way it would idle smooth enough that the whole car wasnt rattling from the vibrations, was it bump it up to about 1000rpm. well now it is idling smooth at about 750-800rpm which is very close to right. stock spec is 700-750. i haven't driven it yet, ill test drive on the weekend sometime. 

this may now also help with getting the engine to run warmer. Considering i had to wind the mixture screw in about 2mm, tells me i was over feeling it by a long way, not just a little. and a number of the members from RSOCV had hinted that too much fuel will make it run excessively cold. 

I'm also quietly hoping it will now start easier. i.e. less fuel, less chance of flooding during start up. 

[2redrovers 21,400]

Fingers crossed 🤞

[deankxf 20,286]

I'd think if it was rich at idle it would start easier when cold. .

Good luck. Hopefully it makes a difference and you don't need the holy panel pankman(reminded me of pinkman from breaking bad )

[Panko 2,480]

I can't win with this running temp thing lol 

I spent all day yesterday driving the car around, bit of freeway, plenty of hills, and plenty of good windy roads. ran with the radiator cover, and it seemed to be sitting in the low to mid 90s. I'm ok with that. then coming back from Bundoora, I jumped on the freeway back to Ringwood. getting along the freeway at about 90-95km/h, the engine is sitting on just shy of 4000rpm. I noticed the temp gauge on the dash had started to creep up, so i pulled over the side of the freeway to pull the cover out. I mistakenly didnt measure the temp, but i do know as soon as i stopped moving, the temp gauge started going north of half way. i pulled the cover out, and got moving, and it started dropping off instantly but seemed fine on the freeway. i then decided to peel off and go canterbury road, and up over mt dandenong. everything seemed fine until i got to the top where it was pretty frigging cold, and the temp gauge when right down to cold. so, pulled over, checked temp and it was sitting at 70 degrees. which also explains why my heater wasnt heating up the top. so stuck the heat cover back in and drove the rest of the way home to Berwick with it in, and it seemed normal. tested again at home in the driveway when i pulled in, and it was sitting at about 86 degrees. after idling for a few minutes crept up to about 90. 
obviously yesterday was a little warmer than we have had in a long time, so that might have been just enough to set it off on the freeway, but I'm still surprised it cooled down so much at the top of the Mt Dandenong haha. 

anyway, onto more important things  
I got my parts from the UK for the front suspension. Ordered it all Thursday, PayPal cleared the money Friday, and at 10:20am this morning, monday morning, it was delivered from the UK haha 
I've spent the morning test fitting everything that I can (without pulling the car apart) and it all just goes together perfect. so next step is clean up and restore the strut legs, to the point I'm thinking i will even re-paint the red and blue brushed on factory paint marks, just so they look proper original   then pull the car apart because i still need to use the spring hats and bump stops that are currently on the struts in the car. and then put the new struts together and put it all in. 

[deankxf 20,286]

are you sure the temp gauge works properly?

[Panko 2,480]

8 minutes ago, deankdx said:

are you sure the temp gauge works properly?

its just an indicator. no numbers on it, but i have a rough idea when its running hot or cold going by where the needle is sitting. thats why when it dropped down to cold, i knew it wasnt right. sure enough when i checked it with the digital gauge it was at 70 degrees, way under running temp. and that was after climbing from Montrose up to Mt Dandenong. but it was also noticeably colder up the top...like 10 degrees colder lol 

[2redrovers 21,400]

Ha, you need a louvre type vent that you can open and close from the cabin.

Actually come to think of it, that's not as crazy as it sounds, but think along the lines of a deflector that you can change the angle of the incoming air to push it away from the rad.

[SPArKy_Dave 8,870]

The Escort cooling system must have some kind of integral Bypass system that's not working properly,
as what's happening doesn't really make alot of sense.
It's a petrol engine, not a diesel......

It could be, that the modern day thermostats listed to fit Escorts, are not quite sized correctly?
A case of near enough is good enough?

A prime example of this, is the thermostat debacle with the early Jag 6cyl's, and to a lesser extent with the Cleveland V8's.

By default, thermostats will remain closed (blocking the flow of coolant) till the coolant has heated up to opening temp.
The fact that this is not happening, suggests that a significant measure of coolant, must be externally bypassing the thermostat,
and traveling through the radiator.

This in turn, suggests the listed thermostat, is not quite correct for the application.
(doesn't have to be out by much)

In the case of the Jag's and Clevo's, they have internal 'quick warm up' bypass systems.
In one action, the correct thermostats were supposed to open the flow to the radiator, plus block off the internal bypass, using a small foot on the end of the thermostat.
However somewhere down the line, the design of the available thermostats went out of spec (they were made shorter) by a few mm.

In changing the design, the Bypass was no-longer getting completely blocked off, hence the full measure of coolant was not flowing through the radiator, and this in turn, caused the engines to run hotter than normal.

[deankxf 20,286]

2 minutes ago, SPArKy_Dave said:

The Escort cooling system must have some kind of integral Bypass system that's not working properly,
as what's happening doesn't really make alot of sense.
It's a petrol engine, not a diesel......

 

whats the diesel do ? mine runs the heater cold, but gets warm up hills(the gemini) 
 

[SPArKy_Dave 8,870]

7 minutes ago, deankdx said:

whats the diesel do ? mine runs the heater cold, but gets warm up hills(the gemini) 
 

By nature, Diesel engines are very cold running beasts.

[deankxf 20,286]

Just now, SPArKy_Dave said:

By nature, Diesel engines are very cold running beasts.

diesel gemini has a bigger radiator than the petrol.. 

[SPArKy_Dave 8,870]

Just now, deankdx said:

diesel gemini has a bigger radiator than the petrol.. 

From factory, or just comparing cars?

Edit -
I added some more info, to my earlier post.

[deankxf 20,286]

1 minute ago, SPArKy_Dave said:

From factory, or just comparing cars?

Edit -
I added some more info, to my earlier post.

from factory, 

i also think this escort either has too good a fan(like a locked up clutch fan on an XF has same effect although robs HEAPs of power) or thermostat issue

[Panko 2,480]

well i still dont believe it is a thermostat issue. its the 2nd new one I've fitted since April. 
The thermostat does have a small bypass built into, and the cooling system is very low pressure, so yes it is bypassing the valve of the thermostat. I just feel that the radiator, and cold weather together is whats causing it to run so cold. the original radiator was fairly blocked with bugs and the like, and yeah used to get a little hot. i stuck this reconditioned radiator in, and its immediately went the opposite end of scale. that was back in March when I put the first new thermostat in. 

during the warmer months it tends to be fine as far as i can remember. 

the fact of the matter is, the coolant is not getting hot enough to even open the thermostat in the first place, at its coldest setting, in this case 88 degrees. Between the radiator doing it's job too well, and the cold weather, and the internal thermostat's bypass, its not allowing the engine to get to the base temp. hence running that shield is working, because its letting the coolant from the radiator stay a little warmer going into the engine, replicating the conditions of a warmer day later in the year.