deankxf 20,233 Posted July 23, 2021 they are a weird looking piston.. number 2 looked dirty from DIRT 1 Panko reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Panko 2,472 Posted July 23, 2021 10 hours ago, deankdx said: they are a weird looking piston.. number 2 looked dirty from DIRT it probably was. they were all oily too. Because when i was working on the bottom end i had the block upside down, so there was oil and dirt running out the oil and water jackets. Yeah the heads on these are flat, so the pistons have chambers in them instead of the head. And they are an interference head, so if something goes wrong, it smashes a piston 1 deankxf reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted July 24, 2021 they are a weird looking piston.. number 2 looked dirty from DIRTThat was a British engineering thing at the time, the flat-faced head and the chamber in the piston design resembled diesel engines, and I think they were going for a similar approach to combustion efficiency. The "Heron" design was (I think) as much about production cost as an increase in efficiency. The head could be cast and machined in many less steps of operation, and different compression ratios/chamber volumes could be arrived at simply by changing the piston relief (chamber).There were others that took that approach too, mainly Jaguar with the V12 HE revision, the adoption of which took the fuel consumption from "frightful" to merely "a bit excessive".There were pros and cons.The pros were good combustion efficiency by having the quench area around the entire chamber so the mixture gets pushed into the centre (to the plug) from all directions. Also as stated, simplified manufacture.Cons were that the pistons were relatively heavy, requiring a lot of material in the crown. Also, valve area is limited when the valves cannot be tilted to gain extra space for a bigger diameter and also for optimal flow into the chamber (the reason why Clevos can have such big valves in a 4" bore Vs Windsors).Once multivalve engines started coming on in the 80s, this design became redundant for petrol engines.Sent from my CPH1920 using Tapatalk 2 deankxf and Panko reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted July 24, 2021 i also cleaned up the tops of the pistons today before After The pistons are also .060” oversized. Im not 100% sure, but doing some reading on building these Engines, that means the capacity is approximately now 1660cc. .090” over Brings them up to 1700cc Funny how such a tiny block can be bored so far, yet many big behemoth V8s can't go much beyond 0.030" before the walls get thin.Pistons came up like brand spankers!Sent from my CPH1920 using Tapatalk 2 Thom and Panko reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Panko 2,472 Posted July 24, 2021 Cool bit of information. yeah they came up alright. Just trying to give this engine the best chance it can to run nicely. Just have to spray the head and bolt it on. 1 1 deankxf and gerg reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thom 6,642 Posted July 24, 2021 Funny how such a tiny block can be bored so far, yet many big behemoth V8s can't go much beyond 0.030" before the walls get thin.Pistons came up like brand spankers!Sent from my CPH1920 using TapatalkI think its more a then vs now, one of the model a engines i have here is .130" over, flathead v8's have .125" pistons commonly available and If you I have a good block you can go as far as .190", y blocks have heaps too a 272 (3.62") can be bored to 292 (3.75")and 292's can be bored 3.90", I think as they were trying to make engines lighter thats when the started removing material from the bores and other ares of the engines 1 gerg reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted July 24, 2021 I think its more a then vs now, one of the model a engines i have here is .130" over, flathead v8's have .125" pistons commonly available and If you I have a good block you can go as far as .190", y blocks have heaps too a 272 (3.62") can be bored to 292 (3.75")and 292's can be bored 3.90", I think as they were trying to make engines lighter thats when the started removing material from the bores and other ares of the engines Yeah Ford was a pioneer of "thinwall casting" in the early 60s, the 221/260/289 being among the first of their designs to use that method. Not sure when the "Kent" motor came about but perhaps the British casting process didn't lend itself to that approach? Or maybe the smaller engines didn't benefit as the weight saving as a whole wasn't worth it?The Kent is an amazing engine, among the longest-running designs ever produced if you count the later Spanish versions and was the basis for many motorsport engine designs as well. The most successful F1 engine in history was the Cosworth DFV, which was based on the Kent architecture, just made into a V8. Wow didn't know Y-blocks could be punched out that far... Pity they didn't make them for very long. They weren't a bad engine, just got outdated pretty quickly as the small block Chev was making its presence known. Also, goofy port arrangement that still boggles to this day.Sent from my CPH1920 using Tapatalk 2 Thom and deankxf reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thom 6,642 Posted July 24, 2021 Yeah Ford was a pioneer of "thinwall casting" in the early 60s, the 221/260/289 being among the first of their designs to use that method. Not sure when the "Kent" motor came about but perhaps the British casting process didn't lend itself to that approach? Or maybe the smaller engines didn't benefit as the weight saving as a whole wasn't worth it?The Kent is an amazing engine, among the longest-running designs ever produced if you count the later Spanish versions and was the basis for many motorsport engine designs as well. The most successful F1 engine in history was the Cosworth DFV, which was based on the Kent architecture, just made into a V8. Wow didn't know Y-blocks could be punched out that far... Pity they didn't make them for very long. They weren't a bad engine, just got outdated pretty quickly as the small block Chev was making its presence known. Also, goofy port arrangement that still boggles to this day.Sent from my CPH1920 using TapatalkIf you want to look into some weirdness look up the Argentinean phase2 y blocks after the usa stopped making y blocks in 66 they were produced in Argentina until the 80s at one point they re designed the heads/cam/intake so they were similar to a Windsor head but still used a y block short engine 1 2 Panko, gerg and deankxf reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Panko 2,472 Posted July 24, 2021 Kent engine block was being used from the 60s. I cant remember which series but Anglia/Prefects were the first to run kents in 4 bearing crank form which were 681 blocks. Mk1 Escorts and Mk2 Cortinas went over to the 711M block which is 5 bearing crank and thicker castings. 1 gerg reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted July 24, 2021 Kent engine block was being used from the 60s. I cant remember which series but Anglia/Prefects were the first to run kents in 4 bearing crank form which were 681 blocks. Mk1 Escorts and Mk2 Cortinas went over to the 711M block which is 5 bearing crank and thicker castings. That's interesting. When they went with the thicker castings, could they have been thinking of making a diesel variant of the Kent, just as the Essex V6 was originally designed to have? These were a very stout design for a petrol engine and rumour has it that they were slated to have a dual application for petrol and diesel. That's how they got the nickname "Essex Lump"... Their weight is comparable to a small iron V8. Sent from my CPH1920 using Tapatalk 1 1 deankxf and Outback Jack reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted July 24, 2021 If you want to look into some weirdness look up the Argentinean phase2 y blocks after the usa stopped making y blocks in 66 they were produced in Argentina until the 80s at one point they re designed the heads/cam/intake so they were similar to a Windsor head but still used a y block short engine Yeah that jogs my memory after reading about Argentine Fords. Quite the parallel to Ford Oz in that they did their own thing and achieved a lot in a very small market. I'll bet the Argentine Y-blocks are the holy grail for hotrodders Sent from my CPH1920 using Tapatalk 1 Thom reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Panko 2,472 Posted July 25, 2021 7 hours ago, gerg said: That's interesting. When they went with the thicker castings, could they have been thinking of making a diesel variant of the Kent, just as the Essex V6 was originally designed to have? These were a very stout design for a petrol engine and rumour has it that they were slated to have a dual application for petrol and diesel. That's how they got the nickname "Essex Lump"... Their weight is comparable to a small iron V8. Sent from my CPH1920 using Tapatalk Quite possible. The 681 engines were pre-crossflow heads and chambered heads. The 711m generally are all cross flow and flat heads with dished pistons. 1 gerg reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Panko 2,472 Posted July 26, 2021 I spent today sniffing paint fumes again *disclosure; I did have a mask on* I managed to get the head and rocker cover painted, so I can hopefully bolt it on tomorrow. I went with wrinkle black on the rocker cover. This was after just 2 hours drying, it does say it takes 24 hours to set hard. Im hoping its a little more wrinkly than this, but if not, im not upset. this will only be on there temporarily anyway. I will eventually fit an alloy rocker cover Just sitting there to dry over night. Pretty happy with the way its come up. I wasn't sure how the painted silver head would look, but I think its a nice contrast to the black. 2 1 Outback Jack, 2redrovers and deankxf reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Polson 10,214 Posted July 26, 2021 I spent today sniffing paint fumes again *disclosure; I did have a mask on* Pretty standard procedure for you mainlanders to have masks on these days isn't it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Panko 2,472 Posted July 26, 2021 3 minutes ago, Mr Polson said: Pretty standard procedure for you mainlanders to have masks on these days isn't it? yeah well at least this time we only have those idiot sydney removalists to blame for our lockdown. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Panko 2,472 Posted July 27, 2021 Well the wrinkle paint definitely went wrinkly over night Im super wrapped with the way it turned out. Now it just needs a sneaky "1300HC" sticker put on it to disguise the fact its a 1600 I fitted the head today, and all the rocker gear. hopefully its on for good. I am really happy with the way this has come up. I haven't bolted the rocker cover down yet, because i decided the original bolts aren't pretty enough haha. so I will be fitting stainless button head allen keys. The engine is very close to being able to be fired up. and although that was never the intention until the car was back here from the panel shop, I am tempted to plumb it up and fire the engine up here in the stand. I have the full exhaust system so i can make it relatively quiet. I just need to bolt the manifolds on, dizzy, and plumb up the cooling system and i could run it. it is very tempting. I will be giving the idea some thought and I may give it a shot if it seems easy enough. 3 1 Outback Jack, 2redrovers, gerg and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deankxf 20,233 Posted July 27, 2021 20 minutes ago, Panko said: I am tempted to plumb it up and fire the engine up here in the stand. I have the full exhaust system so i can make it relatively quiet. I just need to bolt the manifolds on, dizzy, and plumb up the cooling system and i could run it. it is very tempting. I will be giving the idea some thought and I may give it a shot if it seems easy enough. be much easier to fix a bad leak if the engine is out of the car, i'd do it if you can safely 1 Panko reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Panko 2,472 Posted July 27, 2021 1 hour ago, deankdx said: be much easier to fix a bad leak if the engine is out of the car, i'd do it if you can safely my biggest concern would be strapping the engine to the dolly. and then radiator...id have to figure something out there. wont be hard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Panko 2,472 Posted July 27, 2021 So im going to put this here for ideas. A mate of mine put thinks I should make an engine plaque to go on the rocker cover. I kind of like the idea, but I have no idea what I would put on it. Ive already told him nothing to do with my name. So if you have any ideas, id like to hear them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deankxf 20,233 Posted July 27, 2021 22 minutes ago, Panko said: A mate of mine put thinks I should make an engine plaque to go on the rocker cover i wouldn't put anything on it that's not in the options(eg, if there's a plaque on a RS etc i'd consider one similar) 1 Fingers reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Panko 2,472 Posted July 27, 2021 1 minute ago, deankdx said: i wouldn't put anything on it that's not in the options(eg, if there's a plaque on a RS etc i'd consider one similar) Yeah I don't know what I would do. I was just going to put the original 1300HC decal on there. 3 Outback Jack, Fingers and deankxf reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deankxf 20,233 Posted July 27, 2021 47 minutes ago, Panko said: my biggest concern would be strapping the engine to the dolly. and then radiator...id have to figure something out there. wont be hard. it's not going anywhere sitting on the cross member as pictured. My Dad used to just shove a garden hose with half a tennis ball type thing to seal it, in the lower radiator hose and turn the tap on and have a bit of similar from the top hose away from the fan(splashy splash not on the engine) depends how long you are going to run it for i guess(Most of the one's Dad ran had been sitting under the bench in the shed for 10yrs plus) 2 2redrovers and Panko reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thom 6,642 Posted July 27, 2021 it's not going anywhere sitting on the cross member as pictured. My Dad used to just shove a garden hose with half a tennis ball type thing to seal it, in the lower radiator hose and turn the tap on and have a bit of similar from the top hose away from the fan(splashy splash not on the engine) depends how long you are going to run it for i guess(Most of the one's Dad ran had been sitting under the bench in the shed for 10yrs plus) Agreed I've fired up engines in way sketchier situations last one I did i fired up my xflow balanced on bricks, radiator hoses are usually stiff enough to hold a radiator in place, I have cable tied a radiator to a chair once to stop it moving 3 1 Panko, Outback Jack, gerg and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deankxf 20,233 Posted July 27, 2021 24 minutes ago, Thom said: radiator hoses are usually stiff enough to hold a radiator in place, not if you have a FIXED Fan on the engine i found out.. gave the transit van a rev .. Bllliiiiingggggg, 3 tubes needed soldering up .. whoops (ziptied to a chair.. yes, do this if a fan is fitted) 1 Panko reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Panko 2,472 Posted July 27, 2021 haha ok guys this sounds like fun. I have to get the distributor regraphed, then I might have a crank at firing it up. It would be nice to get it running and know that its going to be ok before i put it in, then find out that it isn't too good lol. Remember, I haven't rebuild the bottom end, nor have i heard it running, but I have had it cranking over when i did the compression test before i freshened it up. 2 deankxf and 2redrovers reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites