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Panko

Panko's Mk1 Escort (Round 2)

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9 minutes ago, deankdx said:

woo! had to check. 

 

Can I get out of the house and just go for a drive?

Yes, however this can only be undertaken within metropolitan Melbourne or Mitchell Shire, and should not involve leaving your vehicle for any purpose except for the four reasons (shopping for necessary goods or services, care, caregiving or compassionate reasons, exercise, and work or study).

I have saved a screenshot from the DHHS website in my phone. so if i get pulled over, ill pull that out 

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Well the Escort saga continues. 

 

there are 2 parts to this post, and one of them i feel a bit stupid for. 

 

Ive been talking tonight with Warren Heath. (Warren Heath Performance) 

https://www.facebook.com/Warren-Heath-Performance-135194779879292/ 

 

HE has suggested three of things that maybe causing my issues. 

 

First one he suggested is looking for any vacuum leaks on the intake side of the engine. pretty simple and easy to investigate i hope. If it is leaking i think i know where from, but i doubt it. 

 

Second suggestion, was a fault with the carburettor. apparently newer 32/36s are known for having issues, like accelerator pump diaphragms getting holes in them, the auxiliary venturis apparently come lose, the 2 piece aux venturis rotate, he listed all sorts of things. so i might have to strip the carburettor down. 

 

Third suggestion, which i feel like a bit of an idiot for. 

Apparently there is a resister wire hidden inside the main wiring harness for the ignition system. I need to disconnect that wire, because im running electronic ignition. Warren suggested that this could be the reason why changing the plugs last week made such a big difference, because this resister wire could be fowling my plugs over time. 

The reason i feel like an idiot for this, is because ive heard others talk about the resister wire, but not in depth. Warren gave me a good description of where to find the wire. so thats another thing i need to try finding and doing tomorrow. 

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7 minutes ago, Panko said:

The reason i feel like an idiot for this, is because ive heard others talk about the resister wire, but not in depth. Warren gave me a good description of where to find the wire. so thats another thing i need to try finding and doing tomorrow. 

Peter Anderson covered it in the XC restoration(if you have ever watched one of his videos)

on XC it's a wire from the ign switch to the coil.. it is designed to be a resistor.. some others on here had removed (and replaced with normal wire) this wire(BGDAV on the F100, and perhaps one of the XB XC owners also)
if the escort is same, may be the wire itself.. however, if it had a ballast resistor (like My gemini) it won't have the resistor wire, as that's what the ballast resistor does.

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1 minute ago, deankdx said:

Peter Anderson covered it in the XC restoration(if you have ever watched one of his videos)

on XC it's a wire from the ign switch to the coil.. it is designed to be a resistor.. some others on here had removed this wire(BGDAV on the F100, and perhaps one of the XB XC owners also)
if the escort is same, may be the wire itself.. however, if it had a ballast resistor (like My gemini) it won't have the resistor wire, as that's what the ballast resistor does.

 

nope the escort never had a ballast resister, so apparently has the resister wire. 

In theory i should be able to just disconnect the wire. there is meant to be a join near the firewall wrapped in the harness. I need to unwrap the harness and find the join. 

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1 minute ago, Panko said:

 

nope the escort never had a ballast resister, so apparently has the resister wire. 

In theory i should be able to just disconnect the wire. there is meant to be a join near the firewall wrapped in the harness. I need to unwrap the harness and find the join. 

in theory.. if that is the issue.. hotwiring the coil would prove it to be fixed ..

12V straight from the battery to the + coil post.. if it's fixed.. resistor wire issue. (or something else in the system)

i would expect the resistor wire (circuit) needs to be complete.. cut the section of resistor wire out and REPLACE it with normal wire.. 

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1 minute ago, deankdx said:

in theory.. if that is the issue.. hotwiring the coil would prove it to be fixed ..

12V straight from the battery to the + coil post.. if it's fixed.. resistor wire issue. (or something else in the system)

i would expect the resistor wire (circuit) needs to be complete.. cut the section of resistor wire out and REPLACE it with normal wire.. 

but what is a resister wire? 

whats the difference between it and a normal bit of wire? thats what has me confused. 

 

Ill have to confirm tomorrow, but i think there is two positive wires going to the coil. 

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but what is a resister wire? 

whats the difference between it and a normal bit of wire? thats what has me confused. 
 
Ill have to confirm tomorrow, but i think there is two positive wires going to the coil. 

Unless I'm mistaken its a wire with a specific resistance for X length.. Where normal wire has nominal or next to nothing resistance, resistor wire has a value in the 100's of ohms range. Basically it provides the load that the ballast resistor does

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1 minute ago, 2redrovers said:


Unless I'm mistaken its a wire with a specific resistance for X length.. Where normal wire has nominal or next to nothing resistance, resistor wire has a value in the 100's of ohms range. Basically it provides the load that the ballast resistor does

 

thanks Rod, that is the answer i needed. 

 

now, do i need to replace it with a normal wire, or can i run without it? so just disconnect it? apparently there is a connecter in the escorts near the firewall 

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I have another question. 
 

if im running a NON resisted coil, in this case a GT40, do i still need to bypass that resister wire? 

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19 minutes ago, Panko said:

I have another question. 
 

if im running a NON resisted coil, in this case a GT40, do i still need to bypass that resister wire? 

i can't remember exactly what's up..
i emailed the mob i got the electronic ignition from.

but, the resistor wire drops 12V to 10V.. so you'd more need to remove that wire to get 12V there (or probably 13.8 if the alternator is doing it's job well)
 

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12 minutes ago, deankdx said:

i can't remember exactly what's up..
i emailed the mob i got the electronic ignition from.

but, the resistor wire drops 12V to 10V.. so you'd more need to remove that wire to get 12V there (or probably 13.8 if the alternator is doing it's job well)
 

Ok so ill stick the multimeter across the coil tomorrow while its running. 
 

if its getting less than 10v i need to bypass the resister wire??

if im getting 12v or above i should be fine? 
 

the alternator is in great working order. Spits out 14.2v all day long. 

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Ok I think Ive worked out what needs to change. 
the coil is fine wired as it is, with the ballast wire intact. 
the distributor itself though, needs a new switched 12v feed that bypasses the resister wire. 
So the resister wire stays as is, but I need to change the + feed for the distributor itself. 

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The GT40 coil has a primary resistance of about 3.4 ohms so doesn't require a ballast resistor

and must get full battery voltage at all times.

 

The GT40R coil has a lower primary resistance of about 1.4 ohms so must be used with a resistor,

whether it's a ballast resistor or a factory resistance wire in the wiring harness.

 

Points ignition systems, supply full battery voltage to the coil whilst cranking,

and circa 9v to the coil whilst engine is running.

 

This is to account for voltage drop during cranking, so a strong spark is provided,

(and to limit current through the points, so they last longer).

 

The resistance wire/ballast resistor, is often 1.6 - 1.8 ohms.

 

The coil positive terminal, may have two wires running to it, through one connector -

one supplies straight battery voltage ONLY when cranking,

the other supplies 9v through the resistance wire (or ballast resistor), via the ign/run circuit.

 

Electronic ignition conversions shouldn't be too fussed on voltages (12/9v), but the coil must suit the supply voltage configuration -

ie, resistor or non-resistor type.

 

However, some conversions, require a HEI coil - which has a very low internal resistance - circa 0.7ohms.

Check what coil resistance, your electronic ignition system expects to see.

A low resistance (High Energy Ignition) coil, will draw alot more current (circa 20A) so check existing wiring is suitable.

 

My suggestion is (if possible) leave the wiring as is, and confirm the correct GT40R (resistor) coil is fitted,

and will work happily with your conversion. 

 

Coil dwell (aka charge time like a capacitor) also plays a big factor in correct operation.

Electronic ign with short dwell-time, will not energise non-HEI coils correctly.

 

Examples:

GT40R, no ballast resistor… 14V / 1.4 ohms = 10 amps. (will overheat/fail)
HEI coil, no ballast resistor… 14V / 0.7 ohms = 20 amps. 

GT40, no ballast resistor… 14V / 3.4 ohms = 4.1 amps.


GT40R with 1.6 ohm ballast resistor… 14V / 3 ohms = 4.6 amps.

GT40R with 1.6 ohm ballast resistor... 9V / 3 ohms = 3 amps.

 

GT40 with 1.6 ohm ballast resistor... 14V / 5 ohms = 2.8 amps. (no good/weak spark)

GT40 with 1.6 ohm ballast resistor... 9V / 5 ohms = 1.8 amps. (no good/weak spark)

 

image.png

 

Part number Primary Primary Primary Turns Secondary Secondary Secondary Output KV Peak VOLTS Turns Ratio Ballast Short
  Resistance Inductance   Resistance Inductance Turns 50pf/1 Meg Current     resistance Order
  Ohms mH   K Ohms Henries   @ 100Hz Amps       number
9 220 061 100 3.1-3.4 13.8 - 15.2 345 6.8-9.2 56.7 22200 26.3 3.4 12 64.3:1   SU120
9 220 061 308 3.2-3.5 14.0-15.5 345 8.0-10.0 68.8 24500 26.3 3.3 12 71:1   GT40
9 220 061 400 1.45-1.55 6.3-6.7 240 6.8-9.2 50 22200 32 5.24 9 92.5:1 1.5 SU120R
9 220 061 430 1.25-1.35 6.3-6.7 240 8.0-10.0 66.1 24500 29.1 3.7 9 102:1 1.8 GT40R

 

image.png

 

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7 hours ago, SPArKy_Dave said:

Coil dwell (aka charge time like a capacitor) also plays a big factor in correct operation.

Electronic ign with short dwell-time, will not energise non-HEI coils correctly.

when My gemini was on the dyno, the tuner noted that "SOMEHOW" the electronic ignition(points replacement like Panko's) was changing dwell with revs. 

 

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well another day spent trying to find the issues with this problematic little car, thankfully to some success this time. 

 

I checked voltage at coil, and when its running, the coil is receiving 13.2v. So either someone has already bypassed the resisted wire in the past, or it doesn't have it. 

 

from there, i pulled the carburettor down, and changed the accelerator pump diaphragm, because i had a spare...no difference. changed the aux venturi on the main side with one from an older 32/36, because of a really bad casting, left a hole on the inside the venturi...made no difference :( 

 

Checked the power valve was working, yep all good. 

I then disconnected the vacuum advance, and blocked the vac line back to the carby, and hey presto, the problem is gone. the car feels better to drive, more responsive, and yeah the misfire has gone. 

 

Obviously something up with my cheapo distributor. 

ill leave it for a few days before i drive it again, and see if the issue is still resolved in a few days, maybe a week perhaps. 

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1 hour ago, Panko said:

Obviously something up with my cheapo distributor. 

 

Not got a Pro and a Comp in its name, does it.?  🤣

 

Good to hear you have narrowed it down, sounds like the problem. 

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1 minute ago, bear351c said:

 

Not got a Pro and a Comp in its name, does it.?  🤣

 

Good to hear you have narrowed it down, sounds like the problem. 

haha nooo

 

its an AccuSpark. cheap chinese. 

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6 hours ago, deankdx said:

when My gemini was on the dyno, the tuner noted that "SOMEHOW" the electronic ignition(points replacement like Panko's) was changing dwell with revs. 

 

 

My understanding, is that's correct operation for HEI coils.

Coil dwell time is altered to reach the same coil current, no matter the rpm.

 

https://www.autospeed.com/cms/a_113140/article

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haha nooo
 
its an AccuSpark. cheap chinese. 
Based on my experience with cheap electronic dizzy conversions, either ditch it and go back to points, or get something decent.

I had quite a few issues with my Cruiser when I got it, running rough, missing, hesitation under load, backfiring, stalling, all disappeared once I went back to an original points distributor.

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1 minute ago, Mr Polson said:

Based on my experience with cheap electronic dizzy conversions, either ditch it and go back to points, or get something decent.

I had quite a few issues with my Cruiser when I got it, running rough, missing, hesitation under load, backfiring, stalling, all disappeared once I went back to an original points distributor.

 

I agree. However, when they work, these engines benefit big time from electronic ignition. 

 

I have a complete points setup, but after having issues with getting the points dizzy to be reliable when i first got the car, and no issues until recently with the electronic dizzy, i think i just need to bite the bullet a buy a scorcher for it. 

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I agree. However, when they work, these engines benefit big time from electronic ignition. 
 
I have a complete points setup, but after having issues with getting the points dizzy to be reliable when i first got the car, and no issues until recently with the electronic dizzy, i think i just need to bite the bullet a buy a scorcher for it. 
Oh yeah, I'd stay electronic if you can get decent branded stuff.
If I was keeping the Cruiser motor I'd have gotten a Pertronix electronic ignition, but once it's Barra'd it'll obviously be distributor-less so I could make do with points for a few months.

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23 minutes ago, Mr Polson said:

Oh yeah, I'd stay electronic if you can get decent branded stuff.
If I was keeping the Cruiser motor I'd have gotten a Pertronix electronic ignition, but once it's Barra'd it'll obviously be distributor-less so I could make do with points for a few months.

To be honest, I wont bother putting a decent setup in this engine. 
If i see a running 1600 come up for sale any time soon, i wont be hesitating to jump on it. With that, a decent ignition setup, mild cam, all my hang ons and all of a sudden the car will have 70-80kw, about double the current power. 
 

there is one on gumtree with a 4 speed (which is different ratios to 1300), long piped headers, complete engine etc. going for $1000. Definitely cant afford that at the moment, and it looks like its been sitting a long time. Headers are super rusty etc. probably suit a rebuild, which i cant afford right now 

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17 minutes ago, Fingers said:

That said, a good ignition for the 1300 is a direct swap to the 1600.

Yes correct. 
It is a direct swap yes. 
I just figure with how tired the 1300 is, i dont think I’ll achieve anything in regards to performance from a good dizzy on it. 
the current setup is reliable enough, and now that its running better with the vac advance disconnected, unless it completely dies, its reliable enough for this engine. 
 

on a side note. Thanks to @Mr Polson for delivering them a couple years back, i have a set of .020” oversized 1300 pistons. If i ever wanted to built a high comp, 1600 screamer, id stick the 1300 pistons in a 1600, which ups the compression quite a bit. It would also rev pretty hard with that setup. 
 

Or for something different, money no object, 1300s can produce good power. There is currently a Mk1 race car for sale which is only 1300. Freshly built race engine producing 108hp at the wheels. Thats nearly double the power a stock 1300 made at the flywheel :o 

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