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wagoon

gear selection/gear stick problems

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I bought an XF single rail a while ago to use on my roller sedan, looked great inside and got a gear stick and clutch cable with the box. Now that the box is in the car and reassembled I can't get it to select reverse. There is no spring movement in the gear lever and it just wont move up or down when the retaining nut is wound all the way down. When I wind out the retaining nut the spring movement returns gradually until the nut is nearly all the way out, but I still can't select reverse even when the gear stick has full travel back in the spring.

 

So I was trying to figure out what was going on and noticed that the gear stick that was originally in my car which is factory XE manual looked differently to the apparent XF gear stick. Can someone shed some light on what is what here?

In this pic the known XE gear stick is one the right. To me the only thing that looks the same between the 2 sticks is length of spring travel.

20160315_203528_zpsm3mryfir.jpg

 

This is the "XF gear stick" lower section measure to the bottom of the nut

20160315_203835_zpscivp0bsk.jpg

 

This is the known XE gear stick measured to the bottom of the nut

20160315_203937_zpsrfxqecm6.jpg

 

I measured the difference between the 2 U-shaped ends and the width is within 0.5mm of each other. But the length of the U-shaped section is 5mm different with the XE one measuring 11mm deep and the "XF" one measuring 16mm deep

 

I'm guessing the "XF" gear stick is not an XF gear stick at all, but the nut which is the metal not plastic nut does screw down into the threads on the box fine. The XF stick does select gears but is quite firm to do so.

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Swap the alloy nut over to the known stick and repeat bro.

 

The unit with the alloy nut looks like a Corty (or early XR style) unit which I think do not interchange as the Corty has a different extension housing and the base accepts a different saddle or as the picture implies the knuckle and receiver could be "too" different to interchange. 

 

P.S There are different coloured saddles to use on each unit aswell and on my XF I used a brown unit.I also found the very best that car ever shifted was with a BMX crank case bearing cup with 2 tabs welded to it and a muffler U bolt to hold it all in place. I put a alloy nut on the stick and still pulled it out of the box a couple of times,never happened with the back yard clamp.    

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Ok cool.

I know removing the alloy nut would save me some cash, but I dont know that I want to destroy a shifter with factory alloy nut that someone else might be able to use.

The shifter mod sounds quite interesting though, would you happen to have any pics or know where I could find a pic. Doing the mod would probably cost less than the $50 for the aftermarket alloy nut as well.

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Nah man my photobucket acc has been ass for mth's. So the bearing cup sits over the top of where the nut goe's tab welded 180 degree's apart and muffler u bolt comes up from underneath and goe's thru retaining tabs to hold show in place. I know if it was too tight I could get reverse so it needs tension but not too much. 

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Dean your a legend mate thank you.

 

Ok silly question time.

Is there any specfic bmx bearing cup I need? As in a specific size or are they all the same?

So to get it right in my head, nothing is removed from the gearstick or replaced by the bearing cap, you have just added the bearing cap for extra security?

 

That SIR is fucking genuis

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Dean your a legend mate thank you.

 

Ok silly question time.

Is there any specfic bmx bearing cup I need? As in a specific size or are they all the same?

So to get it right in my head, nothing is removed from the gearstick or replaced by the bearing cap, you have just added the bearing cap for extra security?

 

That SIR is fucking genuis

 

First off yes he is...forgot all about that bodge thread. Legend Dean...the outta the box champion.

 

Now whatever the bottom bracket size is on a normal ball bearing crank set. The later sealed units do not work for obvious reasons.

 

I cut the metal tabs off as they were mc shagged and fitted the assembly over the top.

 

No not genius cos it only fixed my problem not yours. And I prefer to hear alcohol assisted thank you ;)    

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I went and had a look at that bodgy thread and thought it was a problem solving thread....most of the time.

And yes its genuis cause it will fix my problem. I didnt want to put the plastic nut in there but also didnt want to destroy a factory intact shifter. So yes you have helped me. But dont worry alcohol will assist from now on.

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 And I prefer to hear alcohol assisted thank you ;)    

Case in point. Right now I am celebrating (several whiskey's down and several to go...maybe this belongs in the drunk thread???) as I have not long returned from Tafe where I handed in my final assignment for "Apply Mathematical Techniques in manufacturing, engineering or related environments". This shit covered Linear equations, Quadratic equations along with Trigonometry, Geometry and Algebra. Even the Tafe teacher said he was glad he wasn't the one doing this shit...WTF!!!

Once I have consumed several more whiskey's I will be heading off to the shed to play with my gear stick and gently slide it into the hole that I have lubed up nicely to see how well it fits :huh:

 

Have a good night all cause fuck knows I will :D

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The unit with the alloy nut looks like a Corty (or early XR style) unit which I think do not interchange as the Corty has a different extension housing and the base accepts a different saddle or as the picture implies the knuckle and receiver could be "too" different to interchange. 

    

 

Yep, can confirm as I swapped an XF EFI box into my Corty and extension housing, shifter/housing and rail are all different. Somehow Ford in their wisdom had to go and change it all.

 

I remember too that the reverse switch worked differently in the Corty to a normal Falc. You could bring the reverse lights on just by moving the stick over into the gate, whereas a Falcon you needed it fully slid into gear. That was fun if you wanted to spook some tailgating dickbag, just pop it onto neutral and push it into reverse gate while still moving... No more tailgater!

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Don't work on that car when pissed. Your likely to try and fire it up. Lol.

Dont worry I was way to pissed to try and start the engine...... but it had nothing to do with how much I drank. Turns out I dont feel like getting pissed mid week as I just didnt want any more, man I would make a pathetic alcoholic.

 

When I did try the stick in my box turns out that I could spin the XE shifter 360 degress when the nut was fully seated in the housing, it is just way to short.

 

So to figure of WTF was going on I did some acurate measuring with a pair of needle nose pliers and found that the gear stick that came with the box looks to be the right one.

 

When I bought the box there was no saddle on the shaft so I put the reddy brown one from the known XE box in. I do remember reading on the old site something about some boxes just not needing saddles. So now I will try and remove the saddle I put in there, all the grease I have in the housing isnt making it fun though as the saddle just turns and seems to have a suction effect onto the shaft. The one thing Im worried about now though is because I wound the alloy nut shifter all the way down have I damaged something on the selector shaft cause the shifter would have been pressing quite firm against it?

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There isn't much to those shifter housings.

An alloy housing that mounts with 3 bolts, a couple of bushings that wear in the housing that the shaft runs in,reverse switch and a welsh plug at the back..

 

Doubt that anything is damaged.

You could go under the car punch out the roll pin joining the selector shafts and remove the 3 mounting bolts and work on it on the bench. .would be much easier to see what's happening especially with the grease out and welsh plug removed

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I will try and get the saddle out first which Im guessing will make a big difference. I dont think there was a massive amount of pressure on the selector shaft as the spring action on the gear stick would return pretty quick once I started winding out the nut.

 

Those bushes you mention Dean, if they wear will they cause gear selection issues?

 

If I have no joy after I remove the saddle then I guess my only option will be to remove the shifter housing and have a look. Its always bloody something isnt it, Im suppose to start the car in just over a week.

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i had the shifter shaft machined a bees dick and new bushes made to suit and a new saddle bush and i would guess it must have been how new ones felt. was awesome..

it used to feel like it was in nuetral when it was in gear, even with the saddle bush replaced... it was that bad.

haven't seen one that bad since,

have had a few different types but the best way i found to fix the issue is to fit a T5 box...

 

PS, while under the car doing the shifter housing, check it has oil in it.. the selector shaft seal is common to get chopped out and even though its up high can drain the box to empty in a short time(surprisingly they work for ages with no oil in them)

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Cool thanks for all the info mate it has helped heaps.

I filled the box with oil on the weekend and the shifter housing has had grease in it for a while now. Will definitely keep an eye on that leak point though.

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well, i bought a car with this arrangement also once..

and i have put screws in from the side(dont put them in too long or it will lock the ball up inside... i know this due to reasons..)courtsstick.jpg

A few self tappers works a treat! If I remove gear box that a gearstick doesn't pull out or Once the self tapper mod is done, I pull the extention housing off.

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Ok so got the saddle off the selector shaft and the unknown shifter still has no spring movement when the nut is done up and still wont select reverse. So because I'm suppose to be driving this car in just over a week I will remove the shifter housing and replace it with the one that was on my original XE box. I put the known XE shifter back into its housing and it worked fine so that will be the quickest way out of it.

 

Sly had a look around for bmx bearing cups and I noticed 2 types, one is for 24T and the other is 28T. Would it matter at all which one I got?

This is a kit from bmxworks here in australia. They have a black set for $16.50 and this chrome set for $19.80

BMX-BB-STD-CP.jpg

 

 

Can also get this one from england for the same sort of money as the above ones, it says it's 5/16 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ETC-One-Piece-Crank-Bottom-Bracket-5-16-Cup-and-Bearing-Set-Old-School-BMX-/271762610889

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Thanks once again to Dean for the idea. I changed over the shifter housing today, was and absolute piece of piss. 3 bolts and the roll pin in the shaft, the hardest part was knocking out the roll pin when it was in the car but even that was fairly easy.

So I pulled apart the shifter housing that was on the known XE gearbox, degreased it then lubed up the shaft and inside the housing with fresh grease. All seemed fine then thought I would put the 2 housing on the bench and take some pics.

 

In the below pics the known XE housing is on the left and the unknown one is one the right. Can really notice the height different between the top of the 2 housing when they are side by side. Other than the top height difference there really isn't much difference between the 2 housings that I can see.

20160320_165354_zpswumklqlv.jpg

20160320_165502_zpsknpycb65.jpg

 

 

This number is from the XE housing

20160320_165412_zpsupjyt7ai.jpg

 

 

This number is from the unknown housing

20160320_165402_zpsgnm2lcd3.jpg

 

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Nah 4-sp single rails. I think the one on the right (the taller one) would have a longer distance from pivot to knuckle, and housing is taller to suit. This changes the leverage, so that one would have a shorter shift.

 

I did something like this on my T5, lengthening the shifter below the pivot ball by 20mm and spaced the shifter up with 2x 10mm nylon plates, giving a much shorter shift. Probably too short really, 10mm would have been fine.

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