Build me a fuel system 4 Goldie

[steve mcqueen 1,796]

Guys.

I had a recent fuel leak with project Goldie, and i dont want to have it again so,,,

I want to upgrade her current system to something more "i dont have to worry about".

Her current system is a Bosch 044 EFI pump and after market alloy filter, seems to

work ok but, i cant stand the noisy fuel pump, Fark me!!! 

Im using the standard XD Fuel tank, running EFI hose from

the sender unit to the pump, through the filter then on to the fuel rail looks like this.......

 

Now a week ago one of the small hose's between the pump and filter split open and pumped

half a tank of fuel out and left me stranded on the side of the road,,, close to home thank goodness. 

Anyway....I been thinking about changing the tank, for a couple of reasons,,,,

1)   so i can use an internal fuel pump that will give me almost zero noise from it 

2)   but also reliability and looks neat so i been thinking about using a fuel tank from a EF/EL 

station wagon, i was going to do this way back then when building Goldie but just didn't.

I have measured a wagon fuel tank and made a template to fit the boot floor as it will have to be

cut out to fit and looks like......

 

Now using this method it has its flaws  .

I would have to get the tank modified as the XD has the fuel filler behind the number plate

and the EF/EL use's the passenger side rear quater to fill it up from then goes into the tank from

the side, so a cut and shut on the tank to get it close to the original filler location for less headaches.

Plus, i would be doing away with the spare wheel well in the XD boot floor. The EF/EL tank has

the spare wheel sit on top of it but nothing like the XD. 

I have it sitting between the rear leaf springs in this pic so they shouldn't pose a problem but the rear

chassis rail may need surgery for it to fit????

 

Ok, after market fuel cells/tanks.

I have had a brief look on line and dont no anything about them.

So,,,, if i bought one,, lets use this one as an example.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/15-Gallon-57-Litre-Lightweight-Polished-Aluminium-Fuel-Cell-w-Sender-/191782241545?hash=item2ca71cc509:g:NJYAAOSwKtVWwAc5

Can i use it legally?

Can i get one with an internal EFI pump?

where do you fill them up at on the tank, do i have to open the boot every time???

If so, these have flaws to.

lets say,, this Castrol box is the tank, 

 

if its mounted in the center of the boot floor i will be doing away with the spare wheel well and if its located off to

one side all the weight will possibly make the car sit lop sided??

 

So, what to do????

Custom drop tank maybe???

Fuel tank from another car???

Also building this new fuel system i want to run all steel lines so i guess Pirtek or Enzed will be helping with that part.

Guys, i need your imput and idea's 

XE and XF sedan tanks are out as they dont fit under the floor pan correctly.

[Thom 6,650]

Could you modify your original tank to take a e series wagon sender

[Ants 6,370]

I know the xd and xe's run weird voltage for the guage sender and it costs a fortune to get a speedo place to make an eseries sender run an early guage ($500 odd in my wagon).

 

What about a vl pump?

They ran an external unit, i used one when I converted a wb stato i had to efi.

[deankxf 20,266]

something i saw somewhere,(might have been here) was someone running an XG or for that matter E series wagon tank in this instance, with the original XD sender also fitted to that same tank purely for the petrol guage side of things.... cost a bit, but if you are moving the filler neck its much of the same job anyway.

 

i actually wonder if an XE or XF efi tank would fit under the floor in the same spot if you cut the spare wheel recess out.. fuel neck in the correct spot, fuel guage would work..efi pump inside tank and sort of a swirl pot built in...
that would be My suggestion to look into. in my mind, i think you'll just have the spare wheel in the boot as the issue if your tailpipe runs the ouside of the leaf spring(look at Ants XD wagon for eg.)

[BGDAV 1,871]

inregards to the legal side - no fuel in the boot unless its 100% sealed off from the cabin, aka block off from the rear seat backwards 

 

not sure if having a drop tank makes this legal ? in vic they are very unhappy with a fuel cell - speaking to a guy about a drop tank for mine if you get hit up the ass and its not engineered your fked - unless the tank design is engineered i spose cant get just anyone to make one - i got a quote for one for my xe awhile back was around 3k for 80L (obviously didnt happen due to price) 

 

 

if noise is the main issue - does the car have full sound dynamatt to quiet it down? i could barely hear my old holley blue mounted under the car 

[Mr Polson 10,214]

If you were thinking E series wagon tank maybe a x series wagon tank would suffice?

 

The XF setup has a low pressure pump in the tank running to a high pressure pump externally mounted.

 

That way you'd still have a fuel gauge sender, but would be subject to all the other cons of the E series one.

[steve mcqueen 1,796]

Could you modify your original tank to take a e series wagon sender

Not sure.

The E series sender unit mounts up from the passenger side bottom front corner of the tank, it looks neat in that location

if it would fit in the factory hole of the XD tank it wouldn't work correctly as its now working vertical and not horizontal.

 

 

I know the xd and xe's run weird voltage for the guage sender and it costs a fortune to get a speedo place to make an eseries sender run an early guage ($500 odd in my wagon).

 

What about a vl pump?

They ran an external unit, i used one when I converted a wb stato i had to efi.

Ants, my fuel guage doesn't work anyway so i just carry a piece of garden hose i stick down the tank and blow 

air into every now and then, if i hear fuel i keep driving if not i head for the servo.

VL pumps, i thought were all Bosch 044 units? The same one im using now.

Ive just done a quick ebay check on them and some are mounted in the tank?

but appears to be the external Bosch 044.

Great pump, just noisy as fook!!

even with my stereo turned up, you can hear it and people look at you in town at traffic lights and im sure they think

"listen to that POS" hahahaha,,, unless they are looking at me and thinking "what a handsome man he is" 

Im all for more education on this VL pump tho.

 

 

inregards to the legal side - no fuel in the boot unless its 100% sealed off from the cabin, aka block off from the rear seat backwards 

 

not sure if having a drop tank makes this legal ? in vic they are very unhappy with a fuel cell - speaking to a guy about a drop tank for mine if you get hit up the ass and its not engineered your fked - unless the tank design is engineered i spose cant get just anyone to make one - i got a quote for one for my xe awhile back was around 3k for 80L (obviously didnt happen due to price) 

 

 

if noise is the main issue - does the car have full sound dynamatt to quiet it down? i could barely hear my old holley blue mounted under the car 

Thanks, good to know that its not legal to use a fuel cell, i didn't want to go that way anyway.

My floor pan does have the Dynamat from front to back, its worked a treat on noise control just not the pump.

 

 

If you were thinking E series wagon tank maybe a x series wagon tank would suffice?

 

The XF setup has a low pressure pump in the tank running to a high pressure pump externally mounted.

 

That way you'd still have a fuel gauge sender, but would be subject to all the other cons of the E series one.

So the XF wagon tank factory set up sounds like a "surge tank" set up with a low pressure pump feeding the 'imaginary surge tank'

then has the EFI pump mounted on the outside to run the EFI. Where is the EFI pump mounted on the outside of the wagon?

I would have thought it had an internal EFI pump????

 

 

something i saw somewhere,(might have been here) was someone running an XG or for that matter E series wagon tank in this instance, with the original XD sender also fitted to that same tank purely for the petrol guage side of things.... cost a bit, but if you are moving the filler neck its much of the same job anyway.

 

i actually wonder if an XE or XF efi tank would fit under the floor in the same spot if you cut the spare wheel recess out.. fuel neck in the correct spot, fuel guage would work..efi pump inside tank and sort of a swirl pot built in...

that would be My suggestion to look into. in my mind, i think you'll just have the spare wheel in the boot as the issue if your tailpipe runs the ouside of the leaf spring(look at Ants XD wagon for eg.)

Im not sure what an XE or XF wagon EFI fuel tank looks like. They appear to fill up from the side of the car like E series to and if its only an internal low

pressure pump in them that wont work on the EFI.   (ill check the parts cattle dog at work this moring for what pump it use's)

I wonder would a EFI pump fit from an XF sedan fit my XD sedan tank????

Prolly not but that just popped in my head right now.

 

Keep them idea's coming team, problem shared is a problem solved.

[BGDAV 1,871]

you could cut the top of the current XD tank and get the XF EFI pump housing (larger housing) plastic welded and sealed ? would be the easiest and most "legal" option then cutting up the floor and if its done right would be hard to tell it was ever done - never had it done but im assuming it can be done ? 

[Mr Polson 10,214]

So the XF wagon tank factory set up sounds like a "surge tank" set up with a low pressure pump feeding the 'imaginary surge tank'

then has the EFI pump mounted on the outside to run the EFI. Where is the EFI pump mounted on the outside of the wagon?

I would have thought it had an internal EFI pump????

 

Im not sure what an XE or XF wagon EFI fuel tank looks like. They appear to fill up from the side of the car like E series to and if its only an internal low

pressure pump in them that wont work on the EFI.

 

XF EFI wagon has that setup. Carby and EFI wagons use the same tank from what I can tell.

 

A carby wagon simply has the fuel pump on the motor.

 

EFI has a low pressure one in tank and the external is mounted on the wagon area floor just above/behind the diff. Easier to have a low pressure/high pressure system than to try and redesign the wagon tank for the EFI internal pump I think.

[deankxf 20,266]

you could cut the top of the current XD tank and get the XF EFI pump housing (larger housing) plastic welded and sealed ? would be the easiest and most "legal" option then cutting up the floor and if its done right would be hard to tell it was ever done - never had it done but im assuming it can be done ? 

THIS IDEA would be good,

 

the EFI XE and XF tanks have a bigger opening for the fuel sender .. cant just screw them on but you could probably make a steel flange ring, oval shape, cut an oval shape into the XD tank and cut and mount an XG or XH E series wagan  pump assembly in with bolts and gasket and keep the current sender as a fuel guage.. .. not even needing plastic welding.(an e series wagon one might also work.. not sure what they look like)

 

E series wagon efi tanks are same fill point and mounting as XD -XFwagon etc probably not worth the hassle to mod.

XF wagon efi fuel pump  was mounted under the rear seat, probaby doable but resembles your current setup mildly(other than fuel lines dont run under the chassis rail(this cant be good for snagging on things surely)

 

you could probably get a small intank efi pump and mount it in the XD tank hose clamped to the XD sender, the honda one i took out once was pretty basic in mounting might be as simple as bending the pipes or extending the fuel pick up to the bottom of the tank if the pressure is same ...(check this)

note the milk bottle cap as reference to diameter of the pump itself

 

 

 

 

[Crazy2287 1,886]

Xf sedan are number plate fill.

 

But I'm + 1 On The:

Get a small in tank pump, like a walbro 255, and do some mad bracketry to fix it to the sender. Use sae30j10 speck hose for in tank as it's ethanol submersion rated and some j9 everywhere else.

You might get fuel surge when the tanks getting empty if you don't baffle the pump...

 

But.

 

If all your worried about if the noise, insulate that fucker. You have mounted to a sheet metal plate, that shit will be acting like a speaker diaphragm. Give it a hit with spray on sound deadened or stone guard, Make a housing/cover for it, spray that too, then lightly stuff the inside with fibreglass insulation batting. To make it quiet in the car, as a test, just unbolt it from the mounting plat and let it hang, then sit in the car with it running and see if it's Just as loud as it was still.

[BGDAV 1,871]

another option is to get a louder exhaust? i cant hear my pump running with the motor on  

[351XD_Fairmont 604]

You could just grab yourself an e-series pump and fix it to the Xd sender, it's a tight fit to get it through the hole in the tank but it works.

I had an ed sender laying around and took the pump off it with the filter then cut the outlet pipe off of the Xd sender(in tank side) and used suitable hose to connect the two then used metal zipties to fix the pump firm to the sender.

Ended up giving it to me mate and he hasn't had any trouble with it that I've heard. If I remember when I knock off tonight I'll post up a picture of it.

[steve mcqueen 1,796]

XF EFI wagon has that setup. Carby and EFI wagons use the same tank from what I can tell.

 

EFI has a low pressure one in tank and the external is mounted on the wagon area floor just above/behind the diff. Easier to have a low pressure/high pressure system than to try and redesign the wagon tank for the EFI internal pump I think.

 

Yeah i checked out today what external pump the XF EFI wagon use's and it looks like the Bosch 044 but of cause its not.

How quiet is that bad boy?

Im thinking if i replaced my 044 with the FPE240 from Fuelmiser, its the listed EFI pump for XF wagon and if its quiet and does the job

then "whoo hoo" ill be a happy camper. 

Ive never had a efi wagon so cant say what they sounded like with the pump.

 

I like BG's maybe get the tank cut and shut, thats not a bad idea. Ill have to see what plastic tank fixing/repair/welding people

are out there and speak with them.

 

Crazy, I have heard of the walbro 255 so i might also check that out.

Yeah, its the noise thing mate im to old to be listening to that continuous Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

that emits from the 044. When im in the car id rather be listening to the Brandenburg concerto no 3 by Sebastian Bach whilst wearing my slippers 

than a 044.

 

351XD, id love a pic, just over the next day or so see how you go.

[tpak addict 1,909]

I thought the ZL and XF tanks were the same.... Rear fill also.

[Crazy2287 1,886]

If its just noise that worries you then simply insulate and enclose the pump. Cheap, easy.

[Thom 6,650]

If its just noise that worries you then simply insulate and enclose the pump. Cheap, easy.

 

I ended up putting the walbro in my ute I a box with rubber wrapped around the pump and lined the box with high density foam and then mounted it using rubber mounts similar to the style that comes with a msd, it was practically right behind the passenger compartment and you couldn't hear it

[ricktewagon 39]

I run a stock XD wago fuel tank with surge tank & 2 pumps. Is noisy though.

[steve mcqueen 1,796]

OK, So you guys who run the SOHC or DOHC engine in your XE's or XF's, what fuel pump's do you use????

 

I would imagine the standard XE-XF EFI pump, in your sedan's, am i right??

[Crazy2287 1,886]

Any pump that can flow 2 liters in 70 seconds or less at rail pressure will be fine for a stocker. Factory pump all the way.

[slydog 7,873]

If anyone thinks there pump is noisey needs to go for a ride in my ute.You can hear the pump with the engine running and my car is far from quiet or sedate.

[Ants 6,370]

044 under the guard in the f6 is the same,very loud