Nath's Cleveland

[Nath 1,975]

Yeah pitted real bad. That photo was after I soaked up all the water sitting there with a rag.

 

Guess my definition of "in a shed" differs a lot to the blokes, since from the amount of water in there it was obviously outside not covered up. Tempted to go drop it back off on his lawn.

 

Should have gone with my first instinct when I took off the rocker cover but I'd been looking for ages, was a long drive out there which I had to organise a mate's ute so I said f*ck it, just wanted an engine to get started on. 

 

I'll look into pavtek. Realistically there's not a lot of stuff I was gonna use from this donk anyway since I need to get 351 stuff.

 

I'll clean up and sell what I can (air cleaners, manifold etc) to see if I can recover some of the loss.

 

Edit: No bueno with the Pavtek one. 3400 for a bare, unbalanced bottom end? No thanks. May as well buy the whole crate motor.

[SLO247 1,713]

Go dump it in his front yard.

[wagoon 2,429]

Edit: No bueno with the Pavtek one. 3400 for a bare, unbalanced bottom end? No thanks. May as well buy the whole crate motor.

Have a think on how much you will have to pay for the next engine and will you pay more to get a proper runner? Then cost of machining, pistons and any parts that need replacing, plus any block will need testing to check wall thickness and core shift. $3400 plus balancing I would think would be a better deal if you know that the block is fine and all bottom end is done. Just a thought

[Nath 1,975]

Yeah I guess. Will have to have a think about it, 3400 is a pretty big hit to take all at once.

 

Was thinking it might be worth buying another one that's been disassembled so I can see for sure there's no nasties, I've seen a few floating around for 250 bucks or so because they're all in pieces. I'm sure whatever is inevitably missing I can make up with stuff from this engine.

 

I already know the answer is going to be "too much" but out of curiosity how much does it cost to get a block re-sleeved?

 

Or if I really can't be stuffed I still have a perfectly good crossy disassembled and ready to go.

[hendrixhc 10,920]

Probably missed it but how much did you pay for it?

[Nath 1,975]

Too much apparently.

[SPArKy_Dave 8,870]

You could start with a brand new Arrow or Buttermore Cleveland block,

and avoid the risk of wasting $$ on another un-rebuildable engine.

[hendrixhc 10,920]

TBH i would be contacting the guy and seeing what he says. Worst he can do is tell you to piss off.

[FOMOCOHO 882]

Yeah pitted real bad. That photo was after I soaked up all the water sitting there with a rag.

 

Guess my definition of "in a shed" differs a lot to the blokes, since from the amount of water in there it was obviously outside not covered up. Tempted to go drop it back off on his lawn.

 

Should have gone with my first instinct when I took off the rocker cover but I'd been looking for ages, was a long drive out there which I had to organise a mate's ute so I said f*ck it, just wanted an engine to get started on. 

 

BUT... Trap for young players just there! Should have had a plan B... I can't see or hear it running, can't see inside it, don't know how long or where it's been sitting... might work away from it... bit of an inconvenience but i've still got the money... a better one will come up!!! Plenty fish...

 

Go dump it in his front yard.

 

Don't do this or he may re-advertise it and make more $$$ and dull the enthusiasm of someone else.

 

Probably missed it but how much did you pay for it?

 

Good question Jimmy! Enjoyin' that XR8 today were ya?! Engine was advertised for $650, see ebay thread.

 

Too much apparently.

 

I hope you at least negotiated a better price otherwise I think you obviously don't work hard enough for your doe and are not savvy enough on the market-place for potential boat anchors. Sorry Nath, sometimes the truth hurts and you just have to take it with both barrels. No point sugar-coating it! It's not good to see a fellow enthusiast learn these pitfalls the hard way.

 

Remember, there are real enthusiasts who will help you to keep enthused and then there are assholes.

 

TBH i would be contacting the guy and seeing what he says. Worst he can do is tell you to piss off.

 

I agree, no harm in trying to recoup some of your doe if the guy has a conscience. Otherwise note your dissatisfaction with gumtree.

[NZXD 2,328]

I'm not sure on the matching costs over here, but a guy I know just had a Cleveland block sleeved, was $100 per cylinder, so yeah $800, not sure if that's good or not?

 

 

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[gerg 10,871]

Give it a clean-up then make the call I reckon. Often rusty bits like this look much worse than they are. It might clean up with a 0.020 or 0.030 cut, you never know. And if just one or two bores need a sleeve each, then it's salvageable. The machine shop will tell you anyway. Better to try and save it than take the same gamble all over again with another block.

[NZXD 2,328]

What's your theory on sleeving the whole block vs just the required cylinder Gerg?

 

I was recently reading an article about Windsor blocks, and how sleeving just one cylinder can cause the ones beside it to oval and be pushed over, and that it was best to do all 8???

 

 

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[Nath 1,975]

Yeah I'll clean it up as best I can Greg and make a decision from there. Was my mistake, and one I won't be making twice. I will admit I went into that with every intention of buying it unless it was properly seized because of the colossal fuck around of having to find one then organize picking it up. Not to mention the 3-4 I've already tried to chase up on that have fallen through.

 

Honestly, I'm just sick of dicking around and just want to build something already. There's a perfect, virgin bore crossy sitting  on my garage floor that is looking more and more tempting.

[FOMOCOHO 882]

After ringing the guy, you may as well strip it down anyway and see what else is good, bad or ugly.

 

Good practice too. Take your crank out, then pistons out with lots of CRC and some emery on the lip, then revisit the bores.

 

Like greg says, it may look better with a clean up. 

[FOMOCOHO 882]

Got a nasty surprise when I took one of the heads off... Fuck.

 

 

 

And remember, push the piston all the way down first, clean as much muck out as you can & do the lip before then pushing the piston up & out.

 

Looks like a 302 if thats the stroke there in the pic.

[Nath 1,975]

Thinking I might just Diesel bath the heads, is there any reason I shouldn't do that?

 

Can't really see them getting any more rooted than they are now.

 

 

Won't be doing much on this engine tomorrow I don't think, have to put the gearbox and stuff back in the XR8. It needs a pink slip in a a couple of weeks so can't really afford to be stuffing around while it sits in pieces.

[SirkWhyXF 1,533]

I know when my father in law built his hj tonner the 308 had been sitting for a lot of years, so he filled it with diesel, let it sit for a week or so (not exactly sure how many days but was multiple from memory), drained it out and when he cranked it over reckoned it blew a heap of black smoke to start with but ran perfect after that. Still running now.

 

So I guess it would hurt the heads???

[gerg 10,871]

Nah no dramas with the diesel bath. At the very worst, you'll stuff the stem seals, which will be replaced anyhow. You can partially dissolve the rust with some vinegar or lemon juice. Serves as a good de-carboniser too.

 

You just have to make sure it's thoroughly de-greased and all the diesel is gone off it, some washing powder and hot water does the trick. Otherwise the diesel acts as a WD-40 and repels the acid, which is water-based.

[gerg 10,871]

What's your theory on sleeving the whole block vs just the required cylinder Gerg?

 

I was recently reading an article about Windsor blocks, and how sleeving just one cylinder can cause the ones beside it to oval and be pushed over, and that it was best to do all 8???

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Never heard of that one NZ but am interested. I haven't used a press sleeve in any engine but others on here have had sleeves in theirs, some without dramas and others have talked of overheating issues, etc. That might be to do with the mating surface between the sleeve and the block to conduct heat away.

 

As for affecting adjacent bores, maybe if they're siamesed but I can't see how that would happen in your average engine where the outside of the bores don't touch inside the water jacket.

 

I know later Windsors are notorious for being a bit thin at the base of the bore and can crack through from 3 to 7 (from memory) through the cam tunnel, but never ever heard of this in a Clevo.

 

I know of someone using a well-flogged 308 block that was +0.060" and even at that had 3 sleeves in it. He slapped it back together probably 10 years ago and ran it every day in a HT ute and I believe it's still going strong.

[hendrixhc 10,920]

One thing is not to loose the faith Nath. everyone gets ripped or fucks up occasionally. Its how we live and learn.

 

I got a 750 "Holley" sitting here which is testament to that. (Thanks Balzy_6)

 

As i said before use it as a learning block, if it proves to be fucked make a coffee table out of it for the man cave!

[wagoon 2,429]

Yeah I guess. Will have to have a think about it, 3400 is a pretty big hit to take all at once.

When I took my engine to the machine shop the quote was around 2 grand, half a dozen things needed doing or changing and when it was all done the bill was 3 grand which I had to pay all at once. Don't kid yourself again thinking you can find a really good virgin bore block for $250, a good 351 crack that doesn't need grinding or linishing and everything else is going to run easy. This is what building cars is all about, the heartache and disappointment of when stuff doesn't run smooth, but it just makes it all that much sweeter when your done.

Here is my bill for machining my crossflow which is from early 2014 from engine engineering, this is no mates rates it's what everyone else pays. Keep in mind you have 8 cylinders so most of the prices are going to be more because you have more cylinders. If you stick with the 302 rods your going to need special pistons which cost dollars as well.

[hendrixhc 10,920]

Kinda hits home that buying a cheaper rebuilt crate motor is the way to go if just want to get it in and done.

 

Id hate to add up all the receipts for my 2 clevos. The Mrs would hat it even more. 

[SirkWhyXF 1,533]

Yep just got me thinking and adding up numbers, and I've spent waaay too much on my XF (been over a five year period but half of that spendings been in the last six months) doesn't matter what you doing or how your doing it if your playing with cars your gonna be spending dollars.

What ever you think you need to spend at least double that, there is always unforeseen costs, one thing leads to the next and once you start you've just gotta keep going.

Not trying to discourage anything btw, just know we all do the same thing. Worse things you could be doing with your hard earned.

[NZXD 2,328]

Yes I can put my hand up and say my 302w build got out of hand a bit, it's the flow in of decisions that start costing you.

 

For example, let's get alloy heads, now need roller rockers, custom push rods, heavier valve springs.....blah blah

 

That was how it started for me.

[hendrixhc 10,920]

I just got dazzled by the pretty boxes and sparkling chrome.