General Carby Questions

[hendrixhc 10,920]

So there are different types of Holley carbies.

 

I see them listed as 4150 and 4160.

 

Is it right that they are both the same but the 4160 is an aluminium body carby as apposed to steel.?

 

Is there any pros or cons to the ally body carbs?

[XTREME KARTS XF 1,212]

4160's DONT have a secondary metering block, and some 4160's dont have external float adjectment if im correct?

 

 

4160's have 2 styles on fuel bowls.

 

 

Centre Hung Float bowls (fuel inlet on a 45 degree angle)

 

 

And Side Hung Float bowels (fuel inlet on the left hand side, commen to see banjo fittings used on some 4160's)

 

 

I have a cast body 4160 on my XD, i suppose alloy is good for looks?

 

 

 

As for performance wise between to 2 styles of body i cant help you on that one.

[slydog 7,873]

4150 carbs are used in performance applications the 4160's in replacement applications.

[hendrixhc 10,920]

Thanks Guys.

 

So i should really be looking at a 4150 for Lucy with a mildly worked Clevo then?

[slydog 7,873]

Even dp carbs can be decent on fuel if you drive sensibly. Till you stand on it.

[Nath 1,975]

Even dp carbs can be decent on fuel if you drive sensibly. Till you stand on it.

Legit question... Does anyone with a clevo powered anything EVER drive sensibly?

 

I know I wouldn't.

[Thom 6,650]

 

Even dp carbs can be decent on fuel if you drive sensibly. Till you stand on it.

 

 

Legit question... Does anyone with a clevo powered anything EVER drive sensibly?

 

I know I wouldn't.

 

You do after you realize it just costs way to much to be a lunatic all the time,also preserving a valid license leads to longer clevo enjoyment

[Nath 1,975]

Pfft just don't shift any higher than second

[gerg 10,871]

4150 is the classic 4-barrel Holley, designed for performance aftermarket applications. 4160 is the same basic design but is more emissions/factory oriented, and will be calibrated as such.

 

As already stated the 4160 has no secondary block which means no power valve, emulsion wells, acc pump passage or replaceable jets. Instead they have a simple plate with the main jet sizes drilled into it along with a primitive emulsion tube and idle feed.

 

A 4150 can be DP or vac, but a 4160 is always vac only. The metering plate doesn't allow the acc pump tube to connect to the carby body, thus making all 4160s vac bodies.

 

Either can be Ally body or die cast Zinc, (which is miles better, trust me). Heat soak is a biggerbproblem on ally carbs.

 

My 4160 is a 600 and has a Zinc body, single fuel inlet and fixed side-hung floats. It lists as a factory Ford replacement on an F-series truck and even has a Ford part number stamped next to the Holley list number. It has an emissions type reverse idle screw.

 

The 4160 can be converted to a 4150 simply by installing a meter block on the secondary side and longer fuel transfer tube (if it's a single fuel feed). In anything but a race car, this isn't needed. The beauty of the meter plate is that it eliminates the power valve and idle screws out of the equation, making the secondary side a set-and-forget item.

 

Likewise, on a 4160 the fixed float bowls can be swapped for adjustables and can be converted to dual feed bowls if needed (say for an alcohol carby).

 

By the time you did all that, you could just have bought the carby you wanted, but it demonstrates how brilliant the modular design is, that you could mix and match so many different parts to get the combo you need. You really do need to be scientific about it though.

 

Just keep this in mind:

DP for race

Vac for street

 

Each is calibrated for its intended purpose and when one is used for the opposite role, it needs to be heavily reworked to suit.

[NZXD 2,328]

That is nearly identical advice I received a few years ago when choosing a carb.

 

I went for a 600 vac secondary, only have baby v8 cubes though.

[hendrixhc 10,920]

Thanks for the info guys.

 

So from what im reading a 4160 should suit my purpose.

[FORD_MAN 1,026]

A 4160's can come with internal adj side hung floats, ext adj side hung float or center hung ext adj floats like the 4150, depends on the model & a few 4150 don't run rear power valves, has a blank fitted. Some "Street"4160's have rear jets,.

I just brought a Quick Fuel Slayer 600 vac sec, haven't run it yet engines not finished. Is a 4160 but has changeable air bleeds, rear jets, notched rear floats (for jet extensions if needed.), elec choke, Center hung ext adj floats, also comes in a 750, cost $450 from VPW.

http://www.vpw.com.au/Category/Index/484395

Or HR series vac sec 4150 http://www.vpw.com.au/Category/Index/484559

[gerg 10,871]

Yeah but we're talking actual Holleys not aftermarket ones like QuickFuel or BG, in which case anything goes.

[gerg 10,871]

That is nearly identical advice I received a few years ago when choosing a carb.

 

I went for a 600 vac secondary, only have baby v8 cubes though.

 

600 vac is the right choice for a warm 5-litre V8. I ended up going with a spread-bore 650 with annulars in the end, to try and get some economy out of it. My original 600 now sits on the shelf.

[FORD_MAN 1,026]

Yes gerg, but for the same money as a Holley 0-80458SA, I got the quickfuel with the extras it has over the Holley.

will make it a lot nicer for tuning,

[gerg 10,871]

Not arguing what is better at all, I know QuickFuel is more jazzed-up and appears to be better value than Holley, if not made in USA. I like the removable air bleeds a lot. Secondary tuning seems smarter on both mech and vac models. Mech secondaries can be opened at 30%, 60% or 1:1 with primary with a simple linkage change. Vac sec tuning looks good too with a simple turn of a needle screw in or out (no swapping springs).

 

 

This whole discussion started on Holley model numbers which bear no resemblance to QuickFuel models.

[gerg 10,871]

This thread would be really useful as a general carby thread.

 

Mods can we migrate it to a new subforum?

 

I've been chasing a really annoying problem with my 650 vac spread-bore. It has beautiful torque right off idle to when the secondaries open, but has an intermittent lean spot at full throttle above say 3000 to when the secondaries cut in. It's been getting progressively worse lately. Sometimes it even backfires.

 

I've really thrown everything at it over time... Played endlessly with jets, drilled out PVCRs, drilled/tapped for air bleeds, fucked with secondary springs (even the stiff brown one), plugged secondary PV and jetted up to 76 but the problem is still there.

 

This morning, I decided in desperation to clamp the secondaries shut with a baby pair of vice grips on the pull rod and whaddya know.... Clean all the way to 5500.

 

So what I suspected was true. The secondaries are popping open way before they're supposed to, giving a lean spot and annoying the shit out of me. No amount of spring changes seemed to fix the problem so I can only assume that the blades are opening against spring pressure (which is pissy at best)

 

So my fix was to install an over-centre spring attached to one of the choke mount screws (no choke). The theory is that the spring holds the throttle shut for the first say 10 degrees, then as the vacuum signal overcomes the spring, it opens and goes over centre and actually helps it open. This is in addition to the standard sec spring that I'm running (purple).

 

Going for a run now so I'll do a little test.

[gerg 10,871]

Update: no good... Pops open too sharply with the purple spring in. Will try brown next.

[FORD_MAN 1,026]

crickey Greg that holley looks like it came off the arc, old removable top one.

my old 6210 spread bore 650dp used to do that, going from the little high vacumn primarys to the big secondaries,

went so lean I had to pump the pedal to stop it from stalling. fixed with a HP street 650DP.

[gerg 10,871]

Lol yeah it's a bit of a relic.... And yes a shiny new house brick would be nice. But alas, I survive on second-hand "junk" and make it work. I don't mind it from a design point of view, annulars all round, no leaky float bowl gaskets, power valves don't blow if it backfires.

 

Summit sells a version of it now, with some improvements. Only square bore though. Still made by Holley I believe. Not bad for something Ford originally brought out in the '50s.

 

Your 650 could have done with some secondary acc pump tuning, possibly a 50cc diaphragm and big squirters.

[FORD_MAN 1,026]

had a 50cc pump, but was leaking from a punched on cap, on the top of the fuel bowl so I upgraded to a better version, rather then paying $200 to get it fixed

still got it in the shed.

[slydog 7,873]

Coughweberscough...

 

 

Wow been a long time coming to get to say that LOL

[gerg 10,871]

had a 50cc pump, but was leaking from a punched on cap, on the top of the fuel bowl so I upgraded to a better version, rather then paying $200 to get it fixed

still got it in the shed.

 

Sounds like a well cap, which would be sucking air under load and leaning out. Easy fix with some replacement caps, no need to cough up 200 bucks... Jeez a brand new meter block ain't even that much.

[Mr Polson 10,214]

This thread would be really useful as a general carby thread.

 

Mods can we migrate it to a new subforum?

 

Done

[gerg 10,871]

Cheers Mr Polson