Crossflow Build Advice

[gerg 10,871]

My issue is that I will worry about breaking something if I lean on it too much, crunch crunch goes the single rail haha.

 

I've broken one but only after lots of clutchless changes day in, day out and fuck knows how many cars it was in before mine. Broke 2 teeth off second but kept driving anyway. I love those suckers... An Aussie engineering triumph. Great shift action (on a nice tight one) and great ratios in the V8 one.

 

Agree with sly on the T5 vs SR subject. The single rail is a toploader design which makes it stronger than any equivalent GM shit. They like to leak but that's just chassis rust protection... They're looking after you see?

[NZXD 2,328]

My issue is that I will worry about breaking something if I lean on it too much, crunch crunch goes the single rail haha.

 

I've broken one but only after lots of clutchless changes day in, day out and fuck knows how many cars it was in before mine. Broke 2 teeth off second but kept driving anyway. I love those suckers... An Aussie engineering triumph. Great shift action (on a nice tight one) and great ratios in the V8 one.

 

Sorry Nath for hijacking the thread.

 

This rail is completely rebuilt, the shift is very precise but slow compared to a modern box, but in saying that it's better than when I first drove it.

[gerg 10,871]

This rail is completely rebuilt, the shift is very precise but slow compared to a modern box, but in saying that it's better than when I first drove it.

 

Yeah sorry Nath just talking shit as usual

 

You need to run engine oil in them with a tube of Nulon G70. No gear oil here.... Here, no gear oil.

[Nath 1,975]

No worries guys I'm learning something here anyway. Gearbox is part of the build in the end.

 

Hopefully my t5 doesn't shit itself.

[gerg 10,871]

What T5 do you have Nath?

[ando76 4,354]

That engine combo Sly listed is very close to the specs of the Mad Scientist Crossflow.  Which has been getting some love over the last couple of days.  Umm better go and update that thread.

 

Nathan - pm'd you about the head and cam package.

[JGP 14]

spool seem to have a decent piston & 200 rod combo,

http://www.spoolimports.com/spool-engine-rebuild-kits/ford/250-x-flow-with-200-rod-rebuild-kit/ford-250-xflow-with-200-rod-and-ross-racing-pistons-rebuild-kit

[ando76 4,354]

Great rods and okay pistons but well and truly not needed in this build in my opinion.  I have that exact combo for my roller cam crossy (which I must get together one day).  only difference is my Ross pistons are second hand.  Ross pistons hate punishment and the tune has to be absolutely spot on or they will die.

 

I reckon I could build this whole engine for less than the ask for those Rods and pistons and at the end of the day it will make the same power. 

 

Forged rods and pistons are really the domain of consistent, high piston speed applications like Drag racing , burnouts and speedway and are a complete overkill for a street motor.  Some seriously fast times have been run on standard rods and acl cast piston. 

[Nath 1,975]

Its a T5 from JimmyKricket's Fairlane with an Exedy clutch thats nearly new. Think he said the box was from an EA wagon.

 

 

Other that no idea about it.

[Nath 1,975]

Also you never know, been thinking about getting my cams licence so it might see some occasional track use in future.

[Jiminy Kriket 133]

EA box is bog stock, only opened to fix leaks to my knowledge.

[gerg 10,871]

Its a T5 from JimmyKricket's Fairlane with an Exedy clutch thats nearly new. Think he said the box was from an EA wagon.

 

 

 

Other that no idea about it.

 

EA should be 3.50 first. A bit short for a diff any shorter than 3.27. I'd go 3.08 or 2.92 with that ratio box.

 

1st gives you 55ks at 5500 with 3.27 diff.

[matt_lamb_160 252]

Jase Stoodley ran this combo for a while before moving on. Take note those who want realistic reliable pump fuel power all for sensible money.

 

Block: 80da bored & honed .030

Crank: 250 ground & balanced

Rods: 250 machined balanced and 302w ARP bolts fitted

Pistons: ACL 21cc dish - combined with a 50 odd cc head was about 9.5:1 comp.

Cam: 230@50 530lift hydro - great cam for these motors!

Head: open chamber carby unmarked ported, 1.85" in, 1.55" exh valves, turned out it flowed 320hp

Springs: crow 7333 doubles - head needs machining for these.

 

Other parts included rollmaster chain, yella terra street terra bolt ons, crow pushrods, romac balancer.

 

Used to run a ultraflow manifold with a 500 holley went well but changed over to a cain and 600 vacuum secondaries and what a difference.

 

Was running a Hall dizzy with a MSD 6AL and MSD digital timing computer- the equivalent now would be a 6AL-2programmable running 36deg total timing.

 

Used a 2200stall in a c4 with 3.7 rear gears.

 

the car was a full street car cortina ran 13.6 @ 100mph then 13.3@103 when i changed to the 600vac and made 200rwhp

Not too different to what the OP put up apart from the intake and carb, which I pointed out as a issue. Even the 500 Holley must have been limiting above 4,500rpm?

 

I'd probably go a higher stall than that, but Jase is probably in the best position to comment on that. I always thought the compression was conservative in that engine too.

[matt_lamb_160 252]

Remember that when people say they "would use". A few of us on here have done all this many times before so listening to people who do and have is the best and safest way.

What are you saying about these people who say "they would use". Has someone said something misleading? Not sure if I missed something??

 

Sure the people who have done are important to listen to, but lets not be too dismissive.

 

I am still not totally sure what the OP is after.

 

I can see a range of engines from a nice P-plate friendly 208-210deg cam with tricked weber and stock manifold, the old favourite 214-218deg cam with 350-500 Holley to what seems to be the new favourite 230-235deg cam with 465-600 Holley. Seems to be heading towards the later.

 

I think comments from people who have done a range of engines (not all 13sec combos) and what they did would be helpful. Have we done this somewhere already?

[matt_lamb_160 252]

170rwhp (~200fwhp) PRO250 build

 

" crow 214 214 stock head no rollers stock dissy coil extractors will work with your 500 but will feel stronger with a 4 barrel this will work with a stock stall auto and stock gears and will pull good and all sorted out nice will keep/beat you mates crapodore easy fit 3.45s and he will have no chance and will not fall to bits cause its a small engine"

[Nath 1,975]

What are you saying about these people who say "they would use". Has someone said something misleading? Not sure if I missed something??

 

Sure the people who have done are important to listen to, but lets not be too dismissive.

 

I am still not totally sure what the OP is after.

 

I can see a range of engines from a nice P-plate friendly 208-210deg cam with tricked weber and stock manifold, the old favourite 214-218deg cam with 350-500 Holley to what seems to be the new favourite 230-235deg cam with 465-600 Holley. Seems to be heading towards the later.

 

I think comments from people who have done a range of engines (not all 13sec combos) and what they did would be helpful. Have we done this somewhere already?

Think he's just making the point that for something like this it's better to stick with something that's already been tried and tested. I totally agree - it's the reason I made this thread to begin with.

 

At the end of the day I'm just looking for a decently powerful motor that can take a bit of abuse and maybe the odd quarter mile here and there. Not after anything that's gonna be a pig to run on the road or something experimental that I'll spend more time fixing than driving.

 

"P Plate friendly" basically means it can't be a turbocharged triple weber setup that's sticking halfway out of the bonnet. Pretty much anything else is fair game. Can't really pull the engine apart and tell me it's not a stock cam.

[matt_lamb_160 252]

A 230deg cam is getting towards being a pig and can easily become one (mismatched gearing etc.). I have had more than one person ask for my advice on a better suited cam after fitting one.

 

They don't need to pull it apart to tell you it's not stock, much more than a 214deg cam and it will become obvious. A 4brl and extractors are obvious. Plus they can just decide it is and put it off the road for whatever reason. Not why I called the other one P-plate friendly anyway, 200hp is plenty to kill yourself.

 

Remember it is your first engine build and the bigger you go, the more likely it will fail.

 

The info, is pretty much all there so it is upto you.

[gerg 10,871]

A 200 hp crossy will make a great first engine. It will start on a winter's morning, not overheat, rattle, or need to idle at 2000 rpm. In a light XD body that's 14s, WRX territory. Anyway it sounds like you're more into corner-carving than 1/4 mile action so midrange is what you want. The cams already mentioned would be great for that. My baby clevo runs a 206/214 and the engine feels much bigger than it is. Good torque from 2000 to 4000, but pulls in 5th from 1000 rpm. The effect would be similar on a crossy if not a bit lower in the rpm band.

 

Most cams bigger than 214 have too much lift for stock valve gear and springs. Limit max lift to 0.500" and all will be happy. Port flow drops off before this anyway.

 

I think the one piece of advice that everybody will agree on is to make a plan, make the right one and stick to it. Changing your mind all the time will see the goal post always moving further away.

[Nath 1,975]

The cam is coming as part of the head deal. Was customized to fit apparently. Not 100% sure on the specs, but Ando was the one who recommended it so I'd tend to trust what he says. Can always flog it and get a different one if need be but I doubt I will.

 

I'm counting on hiding the carby by modifying a stock air cleaner (V8 one even). That's been done before. Extractors stick out like dogs balls yeah but I figure if I get an old ratty looking set I can at least say it's either replacement for a cracked manifold or "hey it was like that when I got it".

 

I'm well aware that those aren't a 100% guarantee that I won't get the long dick of the law but around here they usually pick on JDM cars more than old stuff, and usually you only get nailed if you have an attitude problem. I'm a bit older than most p platers, and I'm off them soon anyway. Got a clean record as well.

 

A 200 hp crossy will make a great first engine. It will start on a winter's morning, not overheat, rattle, or need to idle at 2000 rpm. In a light XD body that's 14s, WRX territory. Anyway it sounds like you're more into corner-carving than 1/4 mile action so midrange is what you want.

Mate if they put a drag strip in the middle of the national park I'd use it

 

I agree with you about sticking to a plan. Once I get the main bits at my place, I'll iron out the smaller details on here with input from you guys and stick with whatever plan it ends up being.

[matt_lamb_160 252]

Ok, I missed that about the cam/head package.

 

Ok.

[Nath 1,975]

I will say this though, if it could chop my brother's Mitsubishi FTO down the quarter that would make me extremely happy.

 

Sick of hearing about how old carby cars are shit and can't keep up with new technology.

[gerg 10,871]

People that rubbish carbies know nothing about them. Ok so they are compromised and flawed compared to efi but just look at how many inputs an efi system has to work with. Then look at how many a carby gets. Two... throttle position and air flow. That's it. Ok three if you count the choke mechanism (manual or electric). From this, that "crude" metal contraption held on by 4 bolts is a self-contained device able to meter the right amount of fuel and air for all operating conditions.

 

It does this using pure physics.

 

Pretty fucking amazing if you ask me

[gerg 10,871]

I will say this though, if it could chop my brother's Mitsubishi FTO down the quarter that would make me extremely happy.

 

Sick of hearing about how old carby cars are shit and can't keep up with new technology.

 

I reckon you'll kick nine colours of shit out of an FTO.

 

And even if you don't, it's still an FTO.... If they made a car out of two dropped pies, a burnt thong, a half-sucked mango and a hatful of assholes it would still be a better looking car than an FTO.

[Nath 1,975]

Don't give a shit what anyone says, carbys are just cooler.

 

It's funny, he just got an ECU tune done on the RX7, cost him a few hundred. Made the car quicker though.

 

I just did the same thing for free with a screwdriver and a spanner. I know which one I'd rather. Less shit to go wrong, less wiring to worry about too. At least if mine breaks I don't need to pay some muppet to sort it out for me either.

 

 

His FTO is actually pretty good. Built it during his first year as an apprentice. Tried and failed to do the motor himself though . Ended up getting a shop to do it. Cost him a fair bit too but it's pretty quick for what it is. I'd rather pull the XD on a rope than drive an FTO though.

[slydog 7,873]

What are you saying about these people who say "they would use". Has someone said something misleading? Not sure if I missed something??

 

Sure the people who have done are important to listen to, but lets not be too dismissive.

 

I am still not totally sure what the OP is after.

 

I can see a range of engines from a nice P-plate friendly 208-210deg cam with tricked weber and stock manifold, the old favourite 214-218deg cam with 350-500 Holley to what seems to be the new favourite 230-235deg cam with 465-600 Holley. Seems to be heading towards the later.

 

I think comments from people who have done a range of engines (not all 13sec combos) and what they did would be helpful. Have we done this somewhere already?

 

Not that it matters but why listen to someone who hasn't done it is my point Matt. I'm not getting into a pissing contest over it.Thats my statement thats what I meant.