Emissions Regulations (NSW)

[Nath 1,975]

Hey guys, just tossing up some engine options and had a question:

 

Say I wanted to replace the 200 I have in my XD with a 250, can I use an XF 250 without having to use all the extra pollution crap (XF's had more emissions stuff than XDs right?).

Or would I be better off looking for a crossflow out of an XD/Cortina that's closer to the same year as the one I have to avoid all that?

 

Could probably just say screw it and use one anyway and no one would find out/care, but just wanted to know if it was 100% above board or not.

[gerg 10,871]

I used an XF motor in my Corty, no probs at all. Just an engine number change and visual inspection of all the appropriate bits and it was all good. As long as you don't have big Holleys hanging off it or anything obvious like that, you'll be fine.

 

Another example: my XE has an XB block in it. I just used the air cleaner from an XD and made sure it looked factory and they didn't even batt an eyelid. They didn't even see the dirty big Holley on top!

[steve mcqueen 1,796]

Nath, im gonna say if your going to all that bother for a small up grade and i mean track an engine down, engine swap etc etc

you should go for a 4 litre conversion like Project Goldie. You have a great base car to kick off with, the XD, so do a 4 litre conversion.

You wouldn't be happy with the 250 crossy, you would have to wake it up with a cam, extractor and some head work at minimum 

for more power anyway. 

Most XD's came out with a 250 from factory so if you stick with that combo just find a 250 from an XF (good luck) and use that motor

but use your inlet manifold, exhaust manifold and presto, your good to go. All that effort for a tiny bit more power = WOFTAM

Go and "test drive" an EF/EL/AU from a car yard and compare the power from it to your current XD and you'll be wanting to do

it quick smart. 

[wagoon 2,429]

Technically speaking when replacing an engine with a newer one you must use the newer engines complete pollution system. BUT that doesnt really apply to crossflows as the covered so many years and as said above you would just bolt you inlet and exhaust manifold to the newer engine. The regulation has more to do with as Steve mentioned putting in a ef-au motor where you have to retain all factory systems( unless going straight lpg which means you can do almost anything). I also agree with Steve on changing a standard 200 to a standard 250 is not really going to set your world on fire. But before you put the new engine in the car there is nothing stopping you "fixing" a few things is there.

A 4 litre conversion is definatly worth considering but it does depend on what your plans for the car are. But that is a different discussion all together.

[SLO247 1,713]

Just throw the 250 in and use your existing manifolds etc. You don't need to change anything else.

 

4L ruins the character of the XD IMO. Give me the 250 any day. A tough one would be even better!

[Nath 1,975]

Cheers guys, got the answer I was looking for.

 

It's not so much a matter of chasing big power - otherwise yeah it'd make a lot more sense just to chuck an AU motor or Barra engine in there... 

 

I wanted to have a crack at rebuilding one myself, and doing a crossy just makes a lot more sense since it's cheap to buy one, parts are cheap as well, and it's ridiculously simple. Might even know someone who can help with the machining side of things, and while I'm at it I'd definitely put a few go-faster bits in there.

 

If I make a total soup sandwich of it and blow it up it doesn't really matter, can just buy another block for 200 bucks, transfer all the parts over and start again.

 

I'm sure a E or AU series motor would fit some of that criteria, but I don't really want to be messing around with EFI, and I passionately hate wiring.

 

Not having a go at anyone who does it, since it's definitely a good choice for practicality, but throwing a newer type of engine in an older car just seems wrong. Not like, sleeping with your sister wrong, but every time I see something like that it just kinda seems a bit off.

[wagoon 2,429]

It really does come down to application and personal preference. Your right in saying the crossflow is stupidly simple but some people would think your simply stupid for sticking with it. We are so spoilt for choice for engine selection it can send you in circles cause even each engine has different options. Main thing to focus on is what you want the car for as that will usually never change, and dont forget budget cause rebuilding anything even a crossflow will chew up cash damn quick.

[Nath 1,975]

I'd be happy with a reasonably mild build. Its a semi-daily/cruiser, not trying to turn it into a drag car.

 

I'd rather keep it simple for a first time build, and I already have a lot of spares and good parts for a crossflow anyway.

 

200hp seems like a good target, I'd be thrilled with 250. Should be plenty of poke for what I'd be using it for with a t5 and good diff ratio behind it.

[gerg 10,871]

200 is a more realistic number for a crossy but that's just the thing... It's a number. What you often forget is the torque made while getting there. Crossys are all about torque and a warm crossy will be equal to or better than a stock V8.

 

To put 200 hp into perspective, that's about 150 kW. That is the same as a stock VL turbo, which at the time was the quickest Aussie car you could buy.

 

Geared properly, 200 hp in a light XD body will put you in the high 14s.

[Nath 1,975]

That's plenty of poke for what I'd want. Definitely want to stick with carb stuff as well so that kind of limits my options for newer engines.

 

As much as I'd like something that'd eat the RX-7 in the backyard, that's probably not a good idea to attempt for a first time build. I'd be happy with something that sounds good and scares commodores. 200hp + crossflow torque goodness should be pretty fun with a 5 speed, MSD Programmable setup and good diff behind it.

[wagoon 2,429]

Forget horsepower that is only needed for racing. Fast street cars use torque.

The money you save sticking with a mild crossflow can be put into sorting the chassis, then the car will be fast around corners as well. Use the biggest benefit our cars have to your advantage-weight or actually lack there of as greg pointed out, especially sticking with the much lighter 6 cylinder. Also dont be suprised if the 5 speed shits itself if you like to change hard, the torque produced by a nice warm crossflow will smash them unless your careful and wheres the fun in that.

Dont go to short on the diff gears as you will be sitting higher in the rev range and wasting the low down torque. Instead of going straight to a 3.45 you could go a 3.23, then if you find the gear to long drop you tyre size by 1 inch. This has the same effect on rpm as changing to 3.45. Or go the other way and increase the tyre size by an inch and have 3.08 gears. It doesnt work out exactly the same but on the street you wont know the difference.

[Nath 1,975]

What box would you recommend then? I thought T5's were pretty good. Careful and cars doesn't really go into the same sentence when I'm involved haha.

 

Luckily I've already re-done most of the suspension - it corners pretty good even now. Still yet to upgrade the leaf springs though (using blocks atm) and there's still a few bushes I've missed to do though.

[Thom 6,650]

T5's can handle a fair amount of abuse I only killed 1 with my warmed up 4.0 in my xh (and that was due to losing the tailshaft) mine is the Last one in the video and I used to drive like that nearly 100% of the time

[wagoon 2,429]

Thom I do agree the T5 is not a bad box at all and can actually last behind turbo engines quite fine, but it comes down to mechanical sympathy. Things break due to load application but I think it has to do more with when and how that load is applied most of the time. It is the same reason why one person can make a factory lsd last with a high powered car but someone else can't make them last a week in a standard car.

 

Nath it really does come down to the way you drive. Every box has it's issues and weak points and you could break a TKO with a standard car if you tried hard enough. The T5 should be fine all I was trying to say is if you have a habit of being hard on the driveline then maybe a stronger box will be needed.

[Nath 1,975]

Should be fine... Its not like I power skid everywhere and bounce it off the rev limiter. Guess I'll find out whether it's ok or not if I break one.

[Thom 6,650]

Should be fine... Its not like I power skid everywhere and bounce it off the rev limiter. Guess I'll find out whether it's ok or not if I break one.

 

What kind of p plater are you?

[Thom 6,650]

Double post

[wagoon 2,429]

That was worth saying twice Thom

[gerg 10,871]

An OHC conversion would make a lot of sense if this was a build for someone experienced and had a lot of bits there already, but this is Nath's first project (I'm assuming) and should be kept as simple as possible.

 

Going OHC means installing EFI pump and lines, electrics from arsehole to breakfast, computers, etc when all you really want is to hit the road in a cool cruiser and enjoy it.

 

A warm crossy might not be up to the performance of a warm OHC but if it puts a smile on your dial, that's all that counts.

[wagoon 2,429]

if it puts a smile on your dial, that's all that counts.

120% agree with that

[deankxf 20,284]

i'd say look a few years ahead.what are you going to want down the track? i ruined several nice stock XEs by fitting V8s to them... by ruined, i mean they were perfect 6s that drove nice as cruisers. and cost $zero to stay that way..

 

if when you are off your Ps and want a V8 why waste your money building a 6 if you are going to pull it out, no one will be wanting one by then and even if they do it wont be worth much.

if in a few years its going to be completely pulled off the road for major resto.. i still wouldnt build a motor till its close to done(might need an electric conversion by then?)

 

emissions wise, theres not that much on any motor swap if its staying stock ish.. even the Barra conversion contains most of its emissions stuff in the ecu, on the engine as stock equipment and a cat.. the rest is probably already on your car(charcoal canister)