Feedback on turbo build

[Menice 331]

I'm currently in the planning stage of my first serious turbo motor using an Au block chasing a respectable 600-700hp safely but I'll back it down a touch. I'll list what I've come up with so far...

 

Turbo - Garrett gt4094r with 1.06 a/r

Rebuild kit - between atomic or spool

Gearbox - tko500/600 or t56 from fg or similar

Injectors - 70lb low impedance, undecided brand

Ecu - Haltech platinum sport 1000

 

That's about as far as I've worked out, does this look good? I already have a head with larger valves, Port work and decked which should be ok, This build is a "because I can" not for any other reason lol will be going into an e series probably Ed falcon. I may never get to the hp I want but this will happen in some form unless I find something better to spend money on

 

Already looking into getting the haltech, gonna throw it in the eb should wake it up a little better than the current j3 chip with the above head work + cam

[nos2 751]

Dohc doesn't interest you mate?

[Menice 331]

Nah it seems to be what everyone is doin, plus i already have the head i wanna use 

[steve mcqueen 1,796]

Where you gona use that sort of HP?

Even if you get 400HP Thats nothing to sneeze at.

You only using this on the street (means trouble)

or the track?

The street means a quick 5 second blast down the highway till you have to back off, all that coin 

you spend building this motor, 5k+ for a 5 second thrill 

you may as well buy a XR6 with a turbo already fitted for this sort of stuff

you could buy a good one for under 10k and have a sexy lookin car.

 

 

Turbo engines are so over rated. 

[Menice 331]

Where you gona use that sort of HP?

Even if you get 400HP Thats nothing to sneeze at.

You only using this on the street (means trouble)

or the track?

The street means a quick 5 second blast down the highway till you have to back off, all that coin 

you spend building this motor, 5k+ for a 5 second thrill 

you may as well buy a XR6 with a turbo already fitted for this sort of stuff

you could buy a good one for under 10k and have a sexy lookin car.

 

 

Turbo engines are so over rated. 

 

 

Because i can and want too, it'll see the track and other events when ever i get the chance but It'll primarily be a fun toy. Its a Hobby and i could find a million other things to spend my money on but i enjoy cars, i know i'll lose money on it but thats not what its about. i'm not a fan of new cars to many problems, can never do things to em as simply as older cars to many technologies get in the road lol

[nos2 751]

All my advice would be, pay Jason a visit at tunnel vision.

No guess work, no fucking around. Just pure drivable power.

[Menice 331]

I have heard good things about them but it wouldn't be a simple drive in drive out deal as i'm about 1700km away even though i do travel down there for work quite often i dont have the luxury of popping in.

[nos2 751]

If your serious about that kind of power out of a sohc, phone call and internet banking is your best friend. Haha

[Menice 331]

Lol sure is, basically how I do all my business due to working away... I'll definitely give em a call though see what we can do/organise

[XPT 673]

I'd be buying an AU2/3 XR6 instead of the ED. Judging by the tremec you don't just want go drag racing. The AU is a very similar weight to the ED and with series 2/3 you are able upgrade to B series premium brakes which would be cheaper than upgrading brakes on a ED. The AU also drives better, is more comfortable and would be a better car all round, each to their own though.

 

The parts you listed are all seem fair enough a few more are:

External wastegate, turbo manifold, dump pipe & exhaust system, Intercooler & pipework, BOV, 1:1 rising rate fuel pressure reg, lift pump, surge tank, twin Bosch 044's, turbo water and oil feeds + turbo oil drain, billet steel flywheel, button/multiplate clutch, hyd clutch master/slave setup from BA on, modded tailshaft & diff.

[steve mcqueen 1,796]

Because i can and want too, it'll see the track and other events when ever i get the chance but It'll primarily be a fun toy. Its a Hobby and i could find a million other things to spend my money on but i enjoy cars, i know i'll lose money on it but thats not what its about. i'm not a fan of new cars to many problems, can never do things to em as simply as older cars to many technologies get in the road lol

 

I hope you remember 'your title' of this subject?

 

You asked for feedback and when you got it, you dont like what is said

Thats what i read into it.......

I wont harp on about reality, sounds like you wouldn't listen anyway 

[Menice 331]

Haha nah it's all good I appreciate the suggestion but I put in the original post my main reason for doing this "because I can" and just cause a newer car already comes with a decent turbo motor or not its just not my thing. If everyone just got new cars we wouldn't have websites like this one, I had a ba falcon for a daily little while ago and now I have a eb which I enjoy more

[Menice 331]

I'd be buying an AU2/3 XR6 instead of the ED. Judging by the tremec you don't just want go drag racing. The AU is a very similar weight to the ED and with series 2/3 you are able upgrade to B series premium brakes which would be cheaper than upgrading brakes on a ED. The AU also drives better, is more comfortable and would be a better car all round, each to their own though.

 

 

The parts you listed are all seem fair enough a few more are:

 

External wastegate, turbo manifold, dump pipe & exhaust system, Intercooler & pipework, BOV, 1:1 rising rate fuel pressure reg, lift pump, surge tank, twin Bosch 044's, turbo water and oil feeds + turbo oil drain, billet steel flywheel, button/multiplate clutch, hyd clutch master/slave setup from BA on, modded tailshaft & diff.

 

If the au wasn't so ugly in my eyes I'd definitely do that, they are mechanically a very good car and there's a lot of advantages to using one but I like the shape of the ed but I may even use a xf if the right one came along. I'll build the motor for what I have now and later on I can always put it in a different car.

 

In saying that there's an au adapters for changing over the ea-d front suspension setup to au, then I should be able to do a Diff swap maybe using a ute Diff from a au - fg yet to decide on best course for that as the Diff will need to be built up for the power

 

The parts you've listed I've yet to look into, did already decide on the twin 044's but wasn't sure if a standard pump is good for a pick up

[ando76 4,354]

That's big HP to chase if this is your first blown deal.  You will spend a shit load on parts and tuning and if you are happy to do that, then more power to you.

 

The Haltech Platinum sport 1000 is a great ecu - but they don't come cheap and neither does the tuning experience required.  If you have some efi tuning experience via laptop then you might be able to get on top of the tune for that power level but remember engine failure is only a missed click away and burnt pistons become expensive (trust me - I know from recent experience).

 

We are using that same ecu on the Honda VTEC mini and I have found them to be very tuneable.  You pay for all the add on's like the O2 sensor stuff but they are worth it.  Haltech also are happy to give you 'base' tunes for certain engines and they are not that bad at all.  But I doubt they would have something even close to where you are aiming for. 

 

To give you an idea on tuning prices - up here in Cairns $2000 gets you a decent dyno tune - although you being in Brisbane you will have more choice and more competition. 

 

600-700hp at the wheels is serious power as you will be making a mountain of torque as well in the turbo application.  Allowing for say 12% drive train loss through the manual that is 784hp at the crank.  That is serious mumbo in anyone's language and I would be very scared of a cast flywheel and even a sports clutch with that much power and torque.

 

Gavin's 450rwhp Turbo KE Corrolla that I've done a bit of work on runs a Quarter Master clutch and drive plate and even it is a little scary.  It lifted the front wheels grabbing 3rd in Mackay recently so we are going auto in an attempt to make it more driveable.   Ok its a light car but power to weight you would be close to the same and the thought of a E series lifting wheels at speed is just plain insane.

 

I think you should listen to nos2's advice and speak to the experts as you will no doubt end up paying twice for stuff otherwise.  Those tunnel vision fellas know their stuff - you will pay for that knowledge - but you are only paying for it once.  Achieving that power level own you own or even paying someone who 'might' know will end in tears.   

[Menice 331]

That power figure is more towards the engine, atw I'll be happy with 500 but its never hurts to build for 600hp then back it down, I've had turbo'd cars before it's nothing new just this will be the first serious one. I had haltech before and was happy with the performance part of the reason for that choice

[ando76 4,354]

Yes well 500 at the wheels will be achievable and still be somewhat reliable if tuned correctly.  Speaking with Ray Hall up here recently about my turbo plans and he advised me that he made 550rwhp in the nineties out of a crossflow so with the better flowing e series head you should be right.  500rwhp out of 6 cylinder is nothing to be sneezed at.  That is 2 and 1/4 hp per cube at the flywheel.  The torque would be unreal and make for a fun ride on a reasonable budget. 

 

That next step to 3 and a bit HP per cube is a big one and would require very good internals, an awesome tune and a very fat wallet, and that is just the engine - not to mention a gearbox and 3rd member capable of handling the grunt. 

 

Good luck with the project.   

[wagoon 2,429]

Sounds like a fun build. Im going to come at it backwards though. You are going to need to pick your gearbox and find a clutch to suit that much torque. The tko600 is a very nice box but the 600 indicates safe torque handling capability. You can put more torque through it no worries but you are then starting to run beyond its safe working range. Yes you can upgrade the box to handle more just like a t56, but the upgrade will be on top of the price of the box and the clutch will be around the price of the box if you want something street friendly ie not a race clutch. Dont get me wrong I love manuals, I wouldnt build a car without it being a manual. But I have actually shelved projects because I couldnt justify spending 4-5 grand on a box and clutch setup. Which if you want a reliable manual thats fun to drive with this much torque is what your going to have to spend.

What sort of events do you want to do with your car?

[Menice 331]

Cheers guys, it does seem like a huge build but the way I'm planning it out it'll happen in stages, first is ecu and fuel system, then I'll throw on the turbo and do very safe tune after that I'll start on building a forged bottom end and things like driveline. It'll all be going in my current eb daily then when I find a mint Ed Fairmont I'll throw it all in that.

 

Gearbox isn't a definite I know the advantage of going auto but I find them so boring to drive lol

 

Events will be anything local from car shows to test and tunes to powercruise, few mates go on random weekend cruises so that as well, just wanna have fun with it

[wagoon 2,429]

I agree with you on the manuals. Not trying to talk you out of a manual, but if your not doing circuit racing events where you use your gearbox to help slow down, a manualised auto with stally will be half the cost and suit the spool time of your turbo.