The T5 Conversion Thread

[gerg 10,871]

Cheers, I've got a single rail and 3:45 gears at the back, so I'll be up around the 2800 which my calculations.

 

Depends on what kind of driving you do and how often, but that's a bit high for cruising. Is it a V8 box or 6 cyl?

[NZXD 2,328]

78 XC V8 box, completely rebuilt.

 

Won't be a lot of long distance driving that often. I'm sure the little 302w will consume a bit of fuel at those rpms cruising.

[gerg 10,871]

It's shouldn't be too bad then. Mine's really like a 4-speed overdrive with "bog cog".

[Jiminy Kriket 133]

Little bit of an idea about how i do these bell housing conversions.

 

First thing i do is skim the nose cone of the gearbox down to suit the bell housing and while i have it off i change the front bearing and seal.

 

Second, i reassemble the gearbox and put it onto the bell housing than transfer punch the hole locations. A transfer punch is a bit of high tensile steel that is machine accurate size to the hole with a point machined centrally on the leading end, just like a centre punch.

 

Third, i take it to the milling machine and using a slot drill, plunge a 25mm hole centrally on the 2 lower positions, leaving a slight shoulder on the bores.

 

Fourth, I grind a weld prep around the edge of the 25mm holes then i ut some pieces of 25mm diameter bright mild steel and  place it into the holes. I leave 1-2mm proud of the surface.

 

Fifth, I put the bell housing on a 4 ring lpg burner and walk away for about 45 minutes.

 

Sixth, I use a process called metal spray welding to bone the slugs in place. Metal spray welding uses an oxy acetylene set with a special ($4000 special) gun that has a hopper arrangement on it to feed a nickel based weld powder directly into the oxy flame.

 

Seventh, Leave the bell housing on the burner for another 45 minutes, but turn the outer ring off. This is what's called a post heat and slowly lets the bell housing cool off.

 

Eighth, once cooled i take it to the mill and bolt it engine side down onto the bed. I then machine the 2 slugs and any weld protruding above the face down level with the gear box mounting face.

 

Deburr and bolt together. I've done 8 conversions this way, and am yet to have one fail. Your process is excellent for a home based job Gerg, this is just they way i like to do them. Having access to the expensive gear makes it nice too.

 

On which bell housing to use, the bell housing i the picture is a 78DA part number. So i am guessing XD-E single rail housing. It needed the 2 extra lugs in the bottom. But i have done a couple at work where the bell housing actually extended far enough below that edge to get the bolts in no worries, just wish i had bothered to note the casting numbers at the time.

 

Just thought i would throw another option out there for all to see.

[gerg 10,871]

Excellent work Jimini, makes mine look like, well.... A backyard job!

 

Love the metal spray weld process you described. You're some sort of a fitter/fabricator/boilermaker right? I would love to have those tools you have there, and the skills to use them.

 

You obviously don't have an issue with the top bolt holes being so close to the old ones... No failures yet so maybe me filling them in on my one is a bit of overkill?

 

Do you find that the Ford iron is bloody rock-hard? My brother once milled out my stock inlet manifold plenum and carby face and reckoned the mill really didn't like it, had to take very small bites otherwise the tool just wouldn't cut.

[Thom 6,650]

But i have done a couple at work where the bell housing actually extended far enough below that edge to get the bolts in no worries, just wish i had bothered to note the casting numbers at the time.

 

The bellhousing you are referring to with the extended edge and bosses cast into it is an xf unleaded bellhousing they are the same casting no as a T5 bellhousing (because they are the same just machined to suit the desired application at the time) and the throw out fork is on the opposite side of the bellhousing as earlier models

[Jiminy Kriket 133]

Yeah, Fitter Machinist by trade Gerg. AS far as the cast iron goes, it has a really hard surface (normal for a sand casting to have some hard areas on the surface) but once you are under it it normally machines really nice. Just gotta make that first cut a nice easy one to get rid of the hard skin.

 

As far as the closeness of those bolt holes, top passenger side is has about 3.5mm of material between the peaks of the threads and the drives side around 2.5mm. Not a problem so far. The only problem i had was on my first personal bell housing, i didn't have a clue what i was doing and ended up trying to weld a lug straight to the rough cast outer. Lets just say that the cracks appeared while i was fitting. Wasn't happy. thought about it a bit mnor and came up with this process which hasn't failed me yet.

This is the bell housing that Nath-25 will receive, it came out of my dads fairlane.

 

Thanks for the info Thom. I'll try to keep a look out for them now.

[Thom 6,650]

Happy to give info from one fitter machinist to another

[gerg 10,871]

I love finding out this stuff. Is cast iron hard on the surface due to a reaction with the sand ie becomes a silicone alloy or somehow turns into a carbon steel?

 

I heard they swapped sides with the clutch fork on S2 XF to get the clutch cable and boot away from the cat that runs down that side

[Jiminy Kriket 133]

I love finding out this stuff. Is cast iron hard on the surface due to a reaction with the sand ie becomes a silicone alloy or somehow turns into a carbon steel?

 

I heard they swapped sides with the clutch fork on S2 XF to get the clutch cable and boot away from the cat that runs down that side

Exactly right Gerg. The genuine XF T5 bell housings have the long clutch cable and passenger side throw out lever. And yeah, the outer layer gets glass hard deposits in it from the moulding material normally. On really good sand castings it doesn't happen because they preheat the sand moulds to prevent inclusions. With cast iron, the quicker the cast cools the harder the material gets. That's another reason you can get a hard skin on the cast iron is rapid cooling of the outer layer and slower cooling of the inner.

 

 

Happy to give info from one fitter machinist to another

Well, that explains the 9" mix and matchery i saw in the other thread. Sometimes you need to think outside the box to make things work the way you want.

[Thom 6,650]

Anything can be fixed/made work miracles just take longer

[Stu5766 394]

We have done the conversion a few times.

The latest evolution was a single rail bellhousing with the top bolts drilled & tapped & bottom bolts drilled & tapped using 2 fabricated clamps holding the bottom of the box to the bellhousing.

Also, as probably already mentioned, the T5 snout has been turned down approx 1.5mm.

So the bellhousing can still accept a single rail if required.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,307]

What is the reason why you just wouldnt use the 5.0L manual bellhousing set-up on the clevo ?

[gerg 10,871]

What is the reason why you just wouldnt use the 5.0L manual bellhousing set-up on the clevo ?

 

A few reasons:

 

Late model 5.0 T5s are 5/8" longer in the input shaft, therefore the bellhousings are deeper by that amount. A 6-cyl Aussie T5 (shorter input) won't work with that kind of bell.

 

5.0 Windsor bellhousings are for 157-tooth flywheels. Clevos are 164. You could easily swap to a 157 but that's more $ and the whole point is to use as many existing bits as you can get away with.

 

Using a 157 tooth flywheel limits your clutch size to 10.5" as opposed to 11" on the 164. That smaller size would be a bit dicey behind a 351.

 

Those Mustang bells are cable type, meaning you'd have to convert your hydraulic or auto pedal box to a cable type pivot and pedal (done it, but wasn't ideal)

 

If you were to use a late T5 with bellhousing and flywheel, the shifter would be in the wrong spot in an x-series (too far back I believe).

[CHESTNUTXE 7,307]

what about a t5 out of a xg is that a possible candidate ? or you just mean the xe-f t5.

[gerg 10,871]

what about a t5 out of a xg is that a possible candidate ? or you just mean the xe-f t5.

 

All 6-cyl T5s XF up to EL had the same input shaft length, shifter placement, shaft diameters, etc. I put an EA T5 into my EF no dramas. Input shafts are same length and diameter as single rail and toploader, 6-cyl and V8 are both the same for clevo/crossy era.

 

Ratios varied though. XF-EA had 3.50 1st, EB-EL got 3.25, AU-BA got 3.35.

 

From AU onwards they changed to a longer snout and different extension housing/shifter location.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,307]

which box did you put behind the clevo i mean which ratio the 3.5 first ? you said 55kms 

[tpak addict 1,909]

I always thought the XF-ED had a taller 1st and the EF-L had a lower 1st...

[CHESTNUTXE 7,307]

The 3.9L engine had the 3.5 first,i just googled it,and 4.0L had the 3.25 so what eva happend after that is with ford.Some yank T5'S has a 2.95 first.

[gerg 10,871]

I always thought the XF-ED had a taller 1st and the EF-L had a lower 1st...

 

 

 

 

which box did you put behind the clevo i mean which ratio the 3.5 first ? you said 55kms 

 

It's out of my old EA and it's near identical in 1st to the old 6-cyl single rail, which is 3.47. 55ks max at 5500 with a 3.27 diff.

 

Here's another forum that lists them:

 

http://www.fordmods.com/post921677.html

 

Ideally, I'd like a T5Z modded to fit behind my clevo. They have a 2.95 1st and are close-ratio. They have a different shifter location so tunnel mods are required. Not on my list of priorities right now.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,307]

yeah i checked that 2.95 first is on all v8 t5's.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,307]

i suppose the 2.95 first gear would be nice behind a mild v8,std top loader had 2.78 1st and v8 302 single rail had 3.06 and 351 single rail had 2.46,i saw some quick time bellhousings to suit a clevo conversion,(nice price too) but with these bellhousings would you need to still mill the input shaft down the 1.5mm ?

[gerg 10,871]

If they say it's to suit a T5 snout then it will be right (no machining) but even if it does need it, it's easy. 4 bolts on the input flange, light tap and it's off. Took me about 5 min on the lathe at work to skim it down.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,307]

i looked at prices for a tko500 or 600 and its like $2500 u.s.,i see a bellhousing to suit t5 from castle rod shop  for about $600 for a clevo i assume a 11 inch clutch will fit in that,can i mate this up to a xg t5 and have a trans shop put a 2.95 first gear ? still gunna be miles cheaper than tko

[gerg 10,871]

You can't swap just 1st gear. The entire box has to be swapped if you want T5Z ratios. I believe even the casing is different, spacing between the shafts is wider to allow bigger gears and bearings. Closest to that in std World Class spec is EB-EL with 3.25:1 first.