gerg 10,871 Posted July 25, 2014 Hi folks there seems to be a lot of knowledge out there on this conversion but it's hard to find solid info on it. I thought I'd kick things off with my T5 - Clevo conversion. Starting out with a C5TA (1965 Truck) factory cast bell to suit a wide-pattern toploader: Left side with T5 box: Right side: Holes marked & pilot drilled: So as you can see the top two holes are too close to the old ones and are definite weak spots, compounded by the fact that they also don't have bosses cast for them. They'd be lucky to have 1/4" of meat to thread into. From the good advice from folks on here, I'll try and silver solder them in a makeshift furnace and solder some studs in as well. I've drilled and tapped M12x1.75 threads for them. This is a mock-up using some M12 set screws wound in from the inside: Next step is to find some studs that are the right length and solder them in as well as plug the top two factory holes with cut-off 7/16 bolts and solder them in too. 4 Outback Jack, Ants, nos2 and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PRO250 1,506 Posted July 25, 2014 Ive done this. I think your issue is your bellhousing, mine i just drilled new holes and done one of the bottom holes i just slotted so it would still go in the factory hole i still run large bolts as well i have no pictures im removing my engine again soon ill take some then 1 gerg reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted August 2, 2014 Ok I needed a way of winding the bolts in from the inside of the bellhousing to the gearbox and use as studs so thought I'd try and make a nice flat surface inside the bellhousing for the bolt heads to tighten on. After two attempts of making a spot-facing tool, I've failed. The first one had a carbide bit but I had the angle wrong. You can't correct carbide bits without a diamond wheel. The second had two tool steel bits but they failed within seconds. I think this factory iron is really fucking hard... Almost as much as my son's forehead. So I've moved to plan B: drill out the top two holes and knock some M12 wheel studs in, then silver solder in place. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted August 3, 2014 Wheel studs knocked in and plugs screwed in. Everything fluxed ready to put on the fire: other side:ready to silver braze:cooling down after job:gearbox side: 2 Jiminy Kriket and Outback Jack reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jiminy Kriket 133 Posted August 3, 2014 So, the solder flowed nicely? Looks like it worked a treat. Could we get a close up of the solder joint from the gearbox face? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted August 3, 2014 So, the solder flowed nicely? Looks like it worked a treat. Could we get a close up of the solder joint from the gearbox face? Not as nicely as I wanted. I had some 40% silver rods at work that flow beautifully, but forgot to grab some (dickhead) had to buy some 15% ones from Bunnings. Nowhere near as nice to use I must say. The housing is cooling in sand right now but as soon as I dig it out tomorrow I'll snap some pics of the face. I soldered from both sides to be sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted August 4, 2014 Roughly ground and filed: 2 Jiminy Kriket and Outback Jack reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jiminy Kriket 133 Posted August 4, 2014 The solder appears to have wicked itself all the way around, so the strength should be top notch. The only thing that may let it down would be the silver solder being only the 15% variety, but if the wheel studs where staked in like in a wheel hub, the solder is just there as a bit of irish engineering (To be sure to be sure) Looks the goods. Always good to see how other people get through this sort of mod. 1 gerg reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted August 4, 2014 I soldered in the studs because there is only about 1/4" of meat there, so I wanted maximum bite with the limited material. I'm rather shitty about the solder as there is some porosity in it, from a bit of flux boil-off. Still don't know whether to trust it or not as a bellhousing letting go whould be ugly indeed. 1 Outback Jack reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted August 5, 2014 Bolted up: 2 XPT and Outback Jack reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
revhead 1,392 Posted August 5, 2014 I just drilled through the bell housing tapped the top 2x holes to suit the bolts I used, hit them with thread lock did them up ft from the inside with my rattle gun ,then nylocked the box to the bolts with more thread lock, as there is ample clearance inside the bell housing to clear the bolt heads, 1 gerg reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RAWDEAL 222 Posted August 16, 2014 Right side: IMO if i had to do that , i would have had someone weld lugs onto the gearbox itself , and drilled holes in them, so you could use the factory bellhousing holes.. Is your toploader bellhousing the normal bellhousing, which is the same as a single rail ? AFAIK they diddnt need so many mods? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NZXD 2,328 Posted August 16, 2014 The single rail has smaller bolt placings than the top loader, only top right from memory is the same. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted August 16, 2014 Right side: IMO if i had to do that , i would have had someone weld lugs onto the gearbox itself , and drilled holes in them, so you could use the factory bellhousing holes.. Is your toploader bellhousing the normal bellhousing, which is the same as a single rail ? AFAIK they diddnt need so many mods? Yeah seen that mod done, looks impressive and strong but still needs furnace welding. Would be rather expensive too and every mod I pay for on a stocker could go towards buying the complete proper housing. My toploader housing is just your standard US unit meant for a 164 tooth flywheel and mechanical clutch linkage (no slave mount). SR housings have a shorter mounting face that won't line up with some toploaders. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted August 16, 2014 The single rail has smaller bolt placings than the top loader, only top right from memory is the same. Yep very correct, my bro XPTCrossy is shoving a toploader behind a single rail bellhousing and needs to drill and tap 3x holes. His toploader has been drilled for both wide and narrow patterns so he's a bit spoiled for choice. T5s have the two bottom holes much lower than a single rail and when mounted on a SR housing, these bolt holes overshoot the mount pad by about 1/2" below, giving nothing to mount to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted November 21, 2014 Was driving my Wags the other day towing a fucking trailer of course and something went clunk underneath and the clutch went really heavy, and barely worked. Got it home and had a look, clutch fork pivot had snapped its rivets off and was sitting there flopping around still clipped to the fork. Found that my slave is now fucked too. This is after i replaced the master about a month ago after it let go in traffic on a 36 degree day, mrs and kids in the car on the way to the beach. Fuck. Anyway so my T5 conversion has been fast-tracked cause i need the wags for family duties, getting to work, waking up the neighbours, etc. Made up a bolt-on bracket to mount the slave onto (my bellhousing is an a ancient mechanical type with no slave mount holes) Been slowly getting bits together lately: New slave $50 Sunbury 11" diaphragm clutch kit $299 Chucked the flywheel on the lathe and shaved it down to 10.5 kg from 13.1 Got it skimmed $40 New pilot $22 Bolted the pivot in where the rivets broke Ok so today it all went in... It was a conga-line of fuckups.... First, had to get my little bloke from school after just 45 min because he was playing up. Tried to do the grease behind the pilot bearing trick, trying to knock it out, couldn't find a good sized drift to put in, used a bolt and some electrical tape, ended up just spraying grease all over my face. Then tried to slide-hammer it out of the crank and the needle roller bit came out and left the outer casing in there. Fuck. Had to drill out each side of it to collapse it and pull out the pieces. They're soft as shit, must be grey iron or something. Even dinged the new one knocking it in with a copper hammer. Couldn't get the petrol compressor running right, had to fuck around with the carby. Needed it to run the rattle gun to do up the flywheel bolts. Another 1/2 hour gone. Had to cut the floor a bit to clear the T5 shifter. Rough as guts job, done with a 9" cutter disc. Haven't built my shed yet, so working out in the open in 40 degree heat, rolling around on a concrete slab with leaves and twigs everywhere, grease and shit in my hair, tools all over the place not organised, all too hot to touch in the sun. Stripped a crossmember bolt Snapped the grease nipple off the throw-out bearing, eventually found another one. Another 1/2 hour wasted. Little bloke decided while i was under the car, that he wanted hugs with daddy. Thanks mate, perfect timing. And no matter how much you drain a manual box, you always get that bit of oil spill out the back when you tip it up. On you, of course. Did i mention it was fucking hot? Anyway phone camera isn't working so no pics for future reference (yet). 2 OLM8 and Outback Jack reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NZXD 2,328 Posted November 21, 2014 Sounded like when I put my manual in, except it rained and was farken cold. Sometimes we can't win. 1 gerg reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outback Jack 6,352 Posted November 21, 2014 Almost there gerg. Usually us frying on this side of the country. lol. Hope it's all good now. Jack. 1 gerg reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted November 22, 2014 Mate if your neck of the woods is anything like this, i feel for you. NZXD I'd much prefer your kiwi weather but you can keep your lovely South Island climate thanks 1 NZXD reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NZXD 2,328 Posted November 22, 2014 Yes rain and cold can be depressing, 20 degrees is my favourite. 1 gerg reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted December 4, 2014 Box in, clutch bedded in, all going well touch wood. Made some scary noises early on with some ticking and rattling but sorted itself over time. Prefer the shift action of my old Single Rail over my cut-down T5 but hey, gearing is good. Gets 2000 rpm at 100ks with 3.27 diff. Nice spread of ratios except 1st is short, maxed out at 55ks. Good for towing with a heavy car though. 2 XTREME KARTS XF and Outback Jack reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outback Jack 6,352 Posted December 4, 2014 Nice work gerg, you'd like my 3.45's then, 1st is for rock crawling or scaring birds....... 1 gerg reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NZXD 2,328 Posted December 4, 2014 Box in, clutch bedded in, all going well touch wood. Made some scary noises early on with some ticking and rattling but sorted itself over time. Prefer the shift action of my old Single Rail over my cut-down T5 but hey, gearing is good. Gets 2000 rpm at 100ks with 3.27 diff. Nice spread of ratios except 1st is short, maxed out at 55ks. Good for towing with a heavy car though. Nice work. What sort of rpms did she pull at 100 with the single rail? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted December 4, 2014 At 100, 4th gear gave me 2600, bit high for highway cruising with a Clevo. I'd prefer to keep the rpm closer to 2000 to allow oil to drain back from the top end. If the oil gets stuck up top, you'll start to lose it a lot more through the valves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NZXD 2,328 Posted December 4, 2014 Cheers, I've got a single rail and 3:45 gears at the back, so I'll be up around the 2800 which my calculations. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites