needle roller bearing

[agentkiwi 110]

Hi

Anyone know what the specs/sizes are for a needle roller bearing to fit the steering box in my FD?

Cheers

[gregaust 319]

Top cover? They come as a kit ready to bolt on is best way

[agentkiwi 110]

Yeah, Except I'm not even sure what they look like or where I'd begin to get one?

Any ideas?

[Trev Vaa 1,185]

theres a kit on ebay, but i can't find it.... comes with teflon seals etc full top plate just bolt it on and away you go.

[agentkiwi 110]

I looked there too & couldn't find 1 either. Anyone know where else to look?

[Trev Vaa 1,185]

ianxy on xfalcon would know

[bear351c 10,270]

Bearing Services, or  (CBC) Consolidated Bearing Company? Take a bearing in, they can measure it, and supply, if you have no luck. 

[XF347 205]

Hey mate I had a brand new one, will check the shed when I get home to see if I still have it. If you cant find one anywhere else let me know, I wont need a spare anymore as Im goin to manual steering.

[gregaust 319]

The bearing wont fit the std bushed top cover, you need the kit comes complete with a washer that's reqd. I get mine from ATP motospecs

[n00bus m@x1mus 465]

Wasnt the xg box like this as standard?

[SPArKy_Dave 8,870]

Motospecs can supply the new roller top - part no. A50280RM - branded as 'Newcom', where the 'Kirby Bishop' writing was.
Newcom Industries Pty Ltd, is the Pedders parent company, and who make the Pedders springs, rebuild their steering componentry, etc.

http://www.newcomindustries.com/

 

The Newcom roller top, also comes as a part of the Motospecs full steering box rebuild kit - part no. GSB-3021

Before they were available, I got some bush tops retrofitted with a bearing, by searching the Timken catalogue at Bearing Wholesalers.

The existing bronze bush, needs to be machined out on a lathe, and the recess where the bush was, needs to be center bored to open it up slightly.
The bearing I used, was a Timken full complement torrington race needle roller bearing, part no. 32208.

 

http://www2.timken.com/timken_ols3/Bearings/GST/WEB_GST2008/GST_BrgSrchDataPlus.asp?BrgMainType=TRB&BrgSubType=TS&Cone=33208&Cup=33208&Series=33208&PNum=33208&Unit=false&BrgImage=Images/TRB-TS.bmp&DataPlusStr=0.36::1.68::40::80::32::143::37.1::144::321.5::51::47::2.8::2.4::25::1.5::70::76::-10.9::9.316::6.684::2.898::0.4178::0.5822::-::&DataPlusStr1=&DxfFileStr=8350**37100**1.63**5120**22800**32200**143000**1.61**0.73**1.5748**40**3.1496**80**1.2598**32**1.2598**32**0.9843**25**0.06**1.5**0.06**1.5**14500**64700

http://www.timken.com/EN-US/products/bearings/productlist/roller/needle/Pages/drawncup.aspx

 

The Newcom roller top, is NOT a full complement torrington race bearing.
The bearing is branded NTN, with a part no. of SCE 208A

Full complement, means that each roller abuts the next roller, all the way round the bearing.</p>
Caged needle roller (torrington) bearings are cheaper, and have half as many rollers - which are spaced apart by a plastic insert (cage).

 

I have a NOS Ford top, which came from the factory with the torrington race bearing, (they were obviously being fitted at a later stage - XG?)
- Part no. XA3580AKT.
It's branded 'Kirby Bishop', and has a full complement torrington race bearing - with an outer cup part no. B208 (could be timken branded)
It must be a late production item, as the wording and finish of the top, is very average - hence the sand casting mould must have been very worn out.

The Newcom tops are cast very tidy, so they must've purchased and refurbed (or copied) the mould, then rebranded it too.

Interestingly, the four bolt holes are tapered holes.
BUT......
the holes in the Kirby Bishop top, are tapered with smaller opening on the inside, and larger on the outside.
Whereas the four bolt holes on the Newcom top, are tapered opposite - with the larger end on the inside.

One of them, has had the holes cast from the opposite end - ie, one top has been cast in a mould facing up, and the other, cast facing down.
How (or if) that would affect the fit, I dunno.

We'd have to compare it with a couple of tops, off some non-rebuilt steering boxes, to get the best two out of three or something.

On both tops, the holes are cast as part of the mould, they're not drilled afterwards.

Note the awesome quality control with the NOS Kirby top, in the last pic......

 

 

 

 

 

[agentkiwi 110]

That's an awesome write up. Very useful. Thanks.

Given that I work in an engineering workshop with a borer & lathes, my best bet might be to buy the full complement bearing, machine out the bronze bush, bore the hole bigger & press in the new bearing?

Or do you reckon the newcom ready to fit tops are good enough?

Thanks again for the excellent post

[n00bus m@x1mus 465]

Top bit of info there David... Ill have to pull the lid off mine now and see whats under there

[Trev Vaa 1,185]

i much prefer the kirby bearing style..... but the casting of the newcom is so much better...

how hard is it to press out the bearing on the newcom and replace it?

[gerg 10,871]

My experience with those needle roller casings has shown them to be thin and fragile when trying to drive/press them out. They just end up smashing to bits. Welding them out might be a delicate but more successful means. Pressing the new one in might be interesting, may need some heat on the casing to slip it in easier.

[SPArKy_Dave 8,870]

My experience with those needle roller casings has shown them to be thin and fragile when trying to drive/press them out. They just end up smashing to bits. Welding them out might be a delicate but more successful means. Pressing the new one in might be interesting, may need some heat on the casing to slip it in easier.

 

You freeze the bearing, and warm the alloy casing to about 100 degrees.

Bearing should almost drop straight in then.

[agentkiwi 110]

I'm going to buy the bearing and have a go at fitting it to the original casing. B208 full complement needle roller bearing.

[agentkiwi 110]

 

I'm replacing all ball joints, tie rod ends, pitman, idler & buying the $450 Nolathane bush kit. Front & Rear.

 

I intend to do all of this over a long weekend in the next month or two so I'll be taking photo's & doing a write up as I go.

Should be interesting. The only thing I'm not looking forward to is drilling out the rivets in the old ball joints! Big fat ~10mm suckers!

[bear351c 10,270]

Only the head of the rivet is 10mm.

 

Centre punch, then centre drill, then 10mm bit, get it spot on, and it's easy. 

[agentkiwi 110]

Haha so I should do this before a liquid lunch?

[agentkiwi 110]

First piece of the puzzle

[mmzh351 63]

Can I purchase the motospec full steering box rebuild kit direct from motospec? Or do I need to go to my local auto shop and order it in?

 

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk

[gregaust 319]

You should be able to

[agentkiwi 110]

Update.

 

I started tackling this today.

Radiator sprung a small leak so I took that out & got it braised.

I thought while I'm at it & the car's off the road I'll change the top.

I also failed a warrant for a worn pitman arm ball joint so perfect time to do it.

 

Everything went well except getting the pitman off the steering coupling. Ran out of time today so tomorrow once I get that apart the box will slide straight out.

Wish I had a hoist, would be so much easier than a crawler!!

 

Machinist at work looked at the top & bearing & said the bronze bush isn't worn but agreed it's a good idea to change to bearing, he said it will be a piece of cake so that's good!

Replacing Pitman, Idler, tie rods & upper ball joints. Could be a long day!!

[agentkiwi 110]

I finished this conversion yesterday. Overall, it's not that hard to do. It does make a difference & wont wear out the bush anymore.

 

A couple of things;

The bronze bush is 18mm deep, the bearing is 12. We machined out the bush down 14mm so that the bearing sits 2mm below the top surface. The bush wears out near this surface so that gap will reduce stress on the bearing. I press fitted the bearing after heating the top very gently. 2-3 taps with a bit of 1&1/4" round bar & a hammer to get it in.

The photos above from sparky dave illustrate this well.

 

The steering box can be a bit fiddly to get in & out. A hoist & or a helping hand would be ideal!

Make sure you cap all of the lines & holes in the box or the fluid goes everywhere including on your exhaust which smokes when hot making you shit yourself thinking the car is on fire!!

 

Pitman arm is much easier to get off with the box out of the car. Puller & a little heat, it pings off.

 

That's about it folks. I'm glad I did this & thanks for all the assistance & advice!