XTREME KARTS XF 1,212 Posted March 1, 2014 I decided to add an engine oil cooler (cos i can) and i've ordered the correct sandwitch adaptor. Will this do the job or is it a little on the small side?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slydog 7,873 Posted March 1, 2014 Nope as thats made to flow a much finer thinner grade oil...a proper oil cooler is needed. If your a member on FF check out Jarrod Woods 408 XT cooler set up.The correct and best way to control coolant and oil temp as they both operate in such close proximity and have a big influence on each other.Varied temps is not good for engine coolant or oil and engine in general... http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11377663 Running a grouted block I need to have a oil thats very resistant to break down but has a high operating temp range and as it's only going for shorts burst's a cooler is not needed for mine. Still it's your car so please don't let me stop you.Always good to mod cars... 1 XTREME KARTS XF reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stevemack 122 Posted March 1, 2014 Grab one from VPW or Rocket, plenty of sizes, unless you're running higher RPM or towing all the time you shouldn't need one thats very big. 1 XTREME KARTS XF reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PRO250 1,506 Posted March 1, 2014 ive been thinking about one for the ghia but i dont have anywhere to fit onei dont think you would need one on a basic engine but how could it hurt, maybe last longer between oil changes? 1 XTREME KARTS XF reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted March 1, 2014 It also won't handle full engine oil pressure. That's an auto cooler as part of a tow pack or something, rated at less than say 20 psi as part of the lube circuit of the tranny. If you were to actually use it as an engine oil cooler, it would have to be fed from a tee off from the system with a flow restrictor before it and returned back to the sump with no restrictions to build up any kind of pressure in it Let me tell you, any rupturing of your engine oil system will empty your sump in seconds. Ask me how I know.. Ok I'll tell you: my fresh Clevo has so far blown off 4 oil filters, and when it does happen, it does so in the time it takes to put my seatbelt on, put it into reverse and take the handbrake off. My oil gauge is showing zero and the driveway is smothered in 4.5 litres of lovely black 20W50. That's how long you've got when something blows... At idle! 3 XTREME KARTS XF, slydog and PRO250 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XTREME KARTS XF 1,212 Posted March 1, 2014 Nope as thats made to flow a much finer thinner grade oil...a proper oil cooler is needed. If your a member on FF check out Jarrod Woods 408 XT cooler set up.The correct and best way to control coolant and oil temp as they both operate in such close proximity and have a big influence on each other.Varied temps is not good for engine coolant or oil and engine in general... http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11377663 Running a grouted block I need to have a oil thats very resistant to break down but has a high operating temp range and as it's only going for shorts burst's a cooler is not needed for mine. Still it's your car so please don't let me stop you.Always good to mod cars... Cant view that thread unless i join (cbf lol) but i'll do some homework on varied engine temps It also won't handle full engine oil pressure. That's an auto cooler as part of a tow pack or something, rated at less than say 20 psi as part of the lube circuit of the tranny. If you were to actually use it as an engine oil cooler, it would have to be fed from a tee off from the system with a flow restrictor before it and returned back to the sump with no restrictions to build up any kind of pressure in it Let me tell you, any rupturing of your engine oil system will empty your sump in seconds. Ask me how I know.. Ok I'll tell you: my fresh Clevo has so far blown off 4 oil filters, and when it does happen, it does so the time it takes to put my seatbelt on, put it into reverse and take the handbrake off. The driveway is smothered in 4.5 litres of lovely black 20W50 and my oil gauge is showing zero. That's how long you've got when something blows... At idle! Cheers mate, better to ask for advice first. That remind's me of a mate of mine who blew the case off a ryco oil filter on his big block XY 20 odd years ago. Grab one from VPW or Rocket, plenty of sizes, unless you're running higher RPM or towing all the time you shouldn't need one thats very big. What about speco thomas oil coolers? Are they any good? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ando76 4,354 Posted March 1, 2014 if you are going to fit an engine oil cooler then look to the modern design ones - not the old tube and fin design, that are no where near efficient. B&M make a good one with a fan unit in the new design and they are reasonable. PWR have some great products and are an awesome aussie company - but you will pay good coin. You need to feed the cooler with massive lines 3/4 minimum. If you don't you will see massive pressure drop. I fitted an old style cooler, with a sandwich plate - that I heavily massaged as they are a shit casting and don't flow well, and fed it with 1/2inch line (as that was the size of the tube in the cooler) and I lost 20psi of oil pressure at idle. hard to believe but as soon as I disconnected everything, bang 20psi back again. I would be spending my coin on a better sump with more capacity before I added and engine oil cooler. Having said that I am not even sure that is required in a standard application. Remember FORD tested these engines heavily before they released them all those years back and they would have towed stuff and given them a fair old flogging so you would really having to be doing some serious towing on a standard motor to warrant the fitment of an oil cooler. In my experience engine oil temp runs so close to water temp it is not funny. So what can we learn from this. Keep the water temp under control and the oil will follow suit. But hey if you want to do it - go for it. just make sure you use quality AN or hydraulic fittings on everything - NO HOSE CLAMPS - as serious engine failure due to rapid oil loss is never fun. 3 XTREME KARTS XF, nos2 and Stevemack reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XTREME KARTS XF 1,212 Posted March 3, 2014 Picked up my adaptor kit today, it came with 3/8 NPT x 1/2 hose barb fittings (Good size or should i go with bigger fittings?) Bought some hose and hydraulic fittings as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigCav 464 Posted March 3, 2014 i dont think those derale thermostatic sandwhich plates work, in theory when cold it should bypass the oil cooler, or atleast some oil flow should, when i fitted one yes my hot idle oil pressure imporoved but my peak cold oil pressures dropped off, if the bypass actually worked it would only drop off when hot, i wont be using one again im pretty sure i used bigger fittings but before you do anything make sure they match to what ever size fittings are on your cooler do you have the right tool for those ear clamps? they work well but if you dont use a suitable tool they are useless Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XTREME KARTS XF 1,212 Posted March 3, 2014 Just by thinking about it, im leaning towards going AN10 fittings. Buy 2 3/8 NPT - AN10 adaptors as i cant find any 3/8 NPT - AN12 adaptors. EDIT: What size of cooler should i go? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nos2 751 Posted March 3, 2014 I'd only ever use ear clamps on my oxy set.. Get some quality fittings dude. 2 XTREME KARTS XF and MNTL.XD reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XES 859 Posted March 3, 2014 Yeah mark use an fittings with either crimped ends or the reusable screw on type mate. That hose is rayed for decent pressure but the ear clamps will be the weak point. 1 XTREME KARTS XF reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nos2 751 Posted March 3, 2014 This is my cooler and fittings, if I end up using it, I will be running hose clamps over the push lock hose ends for peace of mind. 2 XES and XTREME KARTS XF reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XES 859 Posted March 3, 2014 Push lok is pretty good too. Just after a few years of driving it goes hard. Thats 5/8 barbs? Looks the goods too. Just be carful using push lok and hose clamps tho. The way they are designed to work is for thefor the barbs to bite through to the fabric braid. You dont actaully meed clamps and they can cause the barbs to bite too far into the hose and cause a weak spot and leaks. 1 nos2 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigCav 464 Posted March 3, 2014 whats the problem with ear clamps? they are the only clamps iv been able to make work with high pressure, they form rounder clamping surfaces for even clamping and i regularly run them to over 80psi, admitadly not with oil but still pressure is pressure Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XTREME KARTS XF 1,212 Posted March 3, 2014 This is my cooler and fittings, if I end up using it, I will be running hose clamps over the push lock hose ends for peace of mind. Can i have your "go fast" gear? LOL Push lok is pretty good too. Just after a few years of driving it goes hard. Thats 5/8 barbs? Looks the goods too. Just be carful using push lok and hose clamps tho. The way they are designed to work is for thefor the barbs to bite through to the fabric braid. You dont actaully meed clamps and they can cause the barbs to bite too far into the hose and cause a weak spot and leaks. Cheers mate, i've decided to go AN-10 fittings Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nos2 751 Posted March 3, 2014 Everything has a price Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XTREME KARTS XF 1,212 Posted March 3, 2014 So i've got 2 choices, ether Pushlock hose and fittings or go the more expensive option and use braided hose and fittings. No issues with using Pushlock hose and fittings with engine oil coolers? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XES 859 Posted March 3, 2014 Nah not really mark. The more expensive but best option is to use teflon as it has the highest tolerance for heat. But its pretty expensive stuff. Especially in the size your after. I have used push lock hose at work for oil lines. There is a heat resistant steel braided hose that we have at work that has a fabric outer which is my prefered option for oil cooler hoses. Only thing is you need crimped ends. Which isn't a problem for me... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stevemack 122 Posted March 3, 2014 I went AN12 on my race car, it runs to 7k though, anything less and oil pressure was dismal. 1 slydog reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ando76 4,354 Posted March 3, 2014 sprint cars use push on barb fitting on everything - good enough for me. DO NOT use hose clamps on proper barb fittings like those. I have used barb fittings on my race car forever. to get the hose off you have to cut it at the barb - that is how good the seal is. 5/8 (-10) fittings and lines should be okay although I would go -12 (3/4). you can get hydraulic expanders to go up from -8 to -12 and then use the fittings to suit. Just watch the ID of the push on hose that you use and they very from brand to brand. the cooler in nos2 picture is the one that I was referring to as the new design. I would not be using that thermatic sandwich plate - that is just another thing to fail. Just have the good stuff going thru the cooler all the time in my opinion. If you have a need for an oil cooler then you need it all the time and complicating things with that sandwich block is just another thing to go wrong. listen to stevemack as his cooler system works. you will only buy fittings and hose once then 2 nos2 and XTREME KARTS XF reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nos2 751 Posted March 3, 2014 Ando what would I use instead of the sandwich plate? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ando76 4,354 Posted March 4, 2014 I have no issues with the normal sandwich plate that just diverts oil regardless of temp. they do need some work to radius the entry and exits but they work fine once that is done and line size to the cooler is correct. Having said that I am not a fan of 'on circuit' oil coolers, that is using the engines oil pump to push oil thru the cooler. I have designed an off circuit system using a diff oil pump to circulate oil thru the cooler and back into the sump but as yet I have not tried it in the real world. I will be using this system on the roller cam speedway engine that I am about to build (leaving tonight to go and get the bits from brassy - Yahoo) I think 'off circuit' cooling is the way to go, and I am not alone here. When I was designing my system I did some research and found that Ford actually used this system in the XA GT Bathurst cars due to oil surge problems with the big clevo's that they experienced when they fitted the bigger rear tyres under the coupe and cornering forces increased - creating oil surge. Its a bit of mucking around and TBH a dry sump system would be heaps better but our rules don't allow it so this is the nxt best thing for me. 1 gerg reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
