crossflow porting results

[gerg 10,871]

All this nasty talk makes me want a 253

Hey don't knock the thong-slapper

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[matt_lamb_160 252]

9 hours ago, XPT said:

All this nasty talk makes me want a 253

So you can tie it to your feet and drown yourself? I hear they make great anchors...

[deankxf 20,266]

17 minutes ago, matt_lamb_160 said:

So you can tie it to your feet and drown yourself? I hear they make great anchors...

i've been in a quick 253 powered torana.. sounded awesome at full noise.. supposedly ran 13s 25yrs ago.. 

[dex 2,065]

52 minutes ago, matt_lamb_160 said:

So you can tie it to your feet and drown yourself? I hear they make great anchors...

Hahahaha ,,,,

heard that as well . 

253's tick ,,308's rattle is the other 

[gerg 10,871]

People put shit on a 4.2 v8, but the Rangie 3.5 is somehow a great donk?

Like the Ford 400M, its main market was in the smog era, when everything was shit.

I'd like to see what one could do, just like people squeeze what they do out of the "taxi motor" crossy

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[CHESTNUTXE 7,299]

Its just 400 cleveland the m engine was the 351m for midland

[XPT 673]

1 hour ago, matt_lamb_160 said:

So you can tie it to your feet and drown yourself? I hear they make great anchors...

Nah not really, there's probably more dignified ways to go. It was more making the point that the way certain people are carrying on (not you btw) kinda makes me uninspired about mucking around with crossflows. 

[gerg 10,871]

Its just 400 cleveland the m engine was the 351m for midland

Yeah i know but if you just say "400", nobody knows what the fuck you're on about

They called it the 351M to distinguish it from the 351W and 351C. "M" stands for modified. Both blocks are identical, so calling both 351M/400 the M-block simplifies things.

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[CHESTNUTXE 7,299]

didnt the rangie come in a 4.2 as well ? like a bigger v8

[gerg 10,871]

didnt the rangie come in a 4.2 as well ? like a bigger v8

3.5, 3.9/4.0, 4.2, 4.3, 4.4 (P76), 4.5 (TVR), 4.6, and 5.0 in some race engines (ie F5000)

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[CHESTNUTXE 7,299]

yeah the 4.4 targa florio lol

[gerg 10,871]

Wow that's a tangent... From racing crossflow 6s to finally arriving at the Buick/Rover V8

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[broken-wheel 659]

and after 14pages of typical xflow opinionated posts I bet nobody actually took the time to read the cylinder head porting bible ... David Vizard's How to Port & Flow Test Cylinder Heads (S-A Design ...

It only shows how every 3 toothed bogan on ice can talk for years about cylinder head porting but never spent 2 days to read a book explaining pretty much everything one might need to know before opening their mouth and preaching some other idiot's ideas as gospel. It all comes down to brains, would rather spend 3k on porting by a "pro" rather than spending a few bucks on a book, reading it then going to a cylinder head porter and say "here is exactly what I want, can you deliver these numbers for this much $ or not?"

that's the difference between an engineer's brain vs 99% people here

[matt_lamb_160 252]

That's harsh and Vizard leaves a lot un-answered, he also relies on smarter people that came before him and often forgets to acknowledge them. But I also get what you mean with the backyard made up physics, myths and magic men.

There are tonnes of very smart, very handy self taught engine builders out there that could have saved a lot of time and money by reading.

[broken-wheel 659]

agreed, he also likes to keep some things for himself and sometimes talks about high level stuff as if anyone can understand him (Vizard) but the man knows quite a bit, I remember the camshaft challenge where he picked the lift, duration, ramp rate just by looking at the engine bore/stroke and head flow/configuration and was within a few HP of what a professional camshaft engineer got! He's a bit of a grimy old man but worth paying some money to read his ramblings

I only got burned by backyard head specialists once to the tune of $400 and never again! that $400 extra for porting did absolutely noting but slightly port match the intake to the head, there were no burr marks then the head porter said "if you want proper porting mate it's from 5k upwards" I walked away, bought a book and a dremel tool, used blue die and a vacuum cleaning sucking ballbearings through the port to see it takes the die off to better understand flow.

I say this again ..... you can easily make the crossflow head to flow way past 450HP and it will be quiet BUT in order to make 430HP out of it so you can utilise the head flow you will have to spin it past the point where the piston speed is dangerous. Nobody wants to go 5000 Ft/min on piston speed because when it blows up they will come on the forums and blame the builder blah blah 

I like the crossflow engines and imho once you get over 350HP shit will break and will cost a bomb to make it live. At a quarter of the price you can go Barra forced fed never look back. There is no way you're going to build a crossflow for under 10k which will run 11's and last a season which is about 50 passes. And if you do build one that lasts 50 passes (road km's mean nothing here) and run's 11 then you'd run 9's with a Turbo Barra on the same money.

I for one don't like to even entertain the idea of getting anyone to do "performance" work on something that is not feasible from an engineering perspective but hey you can dig a hole with an escalator or you can dig a hole with a toothpick. Whatever floats you boat

Matt, that remark wasn't launched at you

[CHESTNUTXE 7,299]

The next motor im gunna do will be a barra ,if i new how much my crossy was gunna cost with no where near sly or ando's engines hp,i would not have done it and gone atraight to the barra,but its a good learning curve.

[broken-wheel 659]

Just now, CHESTNUTXE said:

The next motor im gunna do will be a barra ,if i new how much my crossy was gunna cost with no where near sly or ando's engines hp,i would not have done it and gone atraight to the barra,but its a good learning curve.

The Barra is king! No shit, anyone who tells you they can get more power out of ANY 6cyl engine for a dollar figure is dreaming or never looked at the Barra engine. Ford learned almost 40 years on how to make the damn thing bulletproof and with a few thousands you can get a taxi $300 engine to take 1000 hp.

The crossflow will sound nicer thou and you'll see, it will be cranky and more characterful than the Barra but won't be as reliable or powerful. Crossflows with big cams are like hookers....

[CHESTNUTXE 7,299]

i can get my hands on many a barra at the wreckers but which one is a good starting point ? the green rocker cover one ,is that the gas one.or any motor

[broken-wheel 659]

cheapest one as you'll put new rods/piston and valves, if you do buy a "genuine turbo motor" you'll pay more than you'd pay for a forged self built bottom end motor with good valves and springs etc

you can paint the rocker cover any color you want but it's insane the price they ask for a turbo motor ... 

[gerg 10,871]

LPG Barras (green cam cover) got the turbo rods with oil passages. Also got the inconel exhaust valves. If you're going to hang a snail off an NA Barra, that would be the one.

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[ando76 4,354]

Bang for buck the BA/BF & FG motors make more hp. That's a given. We race against several up here. Most get 275rwhp with just cams and tune on $300 wrecker motors.  

You have to love crossflow engines to want to make power from them as they are very expensive to build to that same power level. They are after all a very old engine.  

Funny thing is in our form of Motorsport the crossy's still dominate the ba/bf. why? because of their torque and the weight penalty that comes with the Barra. 

At the end of the day the buyer will make the choice. I've got several customer crossflow engine builds on the go at the moment so the interest in them is still there. I make a point of informing all my customers at the very outset that it's not going to be a cheap exercise.

 

[Valvebouncer 2,389]

Ok, Barras are super interesting and seem like a good starting point. A few things I have heard that I want to get confirmed.
* do turbo motors have oil squirters on the underside of the pistons?
* if so do lpg motors have this too?
* I have been told that 2007 onwards all got the turbo bottom end, is this true?

[Outback Jack 6,352]

Im still trying to figure out how he's gonna dig a hole with an esculator..........



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[gerg 10,871]

Im still trying to figure out how he's gonna dig a hole with an esculator..........



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It's the new thing Jack... C'mon, get with the program!

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[Outback Jack 6,352]

Sorry gerg..... damn my fuzzy logic.....

 

Oh and on Vizard.... he is THE master of the 2L OHC Ford motor..... but that doesnt make him master of ALL motors.

 

I think its great people want to see what a crossys limit is.. and stay reliable.

More the merrier...

Competition only means you push yaself more.

 

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