Amps and Speakers

[Woblzz 1]

Hey guys, relatively new here, just bought a new amp today. Ended up getting a Kicker KX200.2, when i was talking to the sales guy he said it was a pretty good amp. Not knowing much about them i went along with it.

 

When i got home i did some research and saw that RMS ratings are a pretty big deal and looking at the amp and my speakers they dont match up :/. My speakers are rated for 120RMS @ 4 ohms, whilst the amp is only 50RMS @ 4 ohms x 2 channels. Hoping there's some more audio savvy guys here that may be able to help me out whether iv been had or not, or if the amp would be more then enough to run my speakers.

 

PS. The speakers are morel tempo front components 6.5".

 

Cheers, Tom

[hendrixhc 10,918]

Speakers and amp combo will be fine.

 

RMS is the true power of amp output and speaker handling capacity. So long as your amp doesnt exceed your speakers will be ok.

 

You could possibly have got a larger amp but in the end should be down to clarity at higher volumes. If you over drive speakers the will distort.

 

The only thing i would say is if you find that you crank your system to the max and it sound distorted you maybe getting clipping from the amp.

 

Remembder to fiddle round with all the settings on the amp and headunit to "tune" the sound to your liking. This could take weeks until you are satisfied and the speakers are broken in.

[Woblzz 1]

Wow cheers for the fast reply "hendrixhc". I feel alot better about it now, appreciate the help.

 

Such a dam awesome community going on in this website, very helpful. 

 

Also good thing i don't plan to crank it to the max then, Putting them in a Ute so really shouldn't need to go too loud

 

Cheers, Tom

[mcfly94 169]

As Hendrix said will be fine, but my opinion is,

Always by an amp with the same rms rating or slightly bigger.

Youll find some brand you can over run there rms rating, like my Rockford fosgates which just kept going and going no distortion.

If your just starting with audio you probably wont notice the difference when running the speakers at say 50rms or 80rms but you would notice the 120.

 

At the moment my front speaker setup is Infinity 6.5" components with Tweeters, 90rms speakers and 90rms tweeters running through a 2ch amp which only produces 85rms

And pretty much ive found the amps 'quality' to be shit over how much power it can provide my speakers, hell it can provide shits loads of power and there so god damn clear with amazing clarity, but! the db and crossover control is non adjustable and only has one or the other settings!

 

So in the end quality over quantity! Fusion does not fall under quality btw, that's the 2ch amp im running, worst control on that amp!

 

And definitely fiddle with settings, set all to zero on headunit, and then set the settings on the amp, and then if you want to reduce bass or increase treble on the fly use the headunit!

 

Youll get it!, audio is easy!

[Woblzz 1]

Audio does not seem easy! so many doobywackies and dials. 

 

When you mention adjustments with amps, looking at the one i got it seems to have a lot of adjustment,

 

 KX Series 2-Channel Class-D Amplifier

- RMS Power Rating:
       4 ohms: 50 watts x 2 Ch
       2 ohms: 100 watts x 2 Ch
       Bridged, 4 ohms: 100 watts x 1 Ch
- High-efficiency regulated MOSFET power supply
- Preamp and speaker-level inputs 
- Fail-Safe Integration Technology eliminates noise from electrical system
- Heavy duty high-mass aluminum alloy heat-sink
- Frequency Response: 10-20,000 Hz
- CEA-2006 compliant amplifier
- variable high-pass filter (10-500 Hz, 24 dB/octave)
- variable low-pass filter (40-5000 Hz, 24 dB/octave)
- variable bandpass filter (10-5000 Hz, 24 dB/octave)
- variable bass boost (0-18 dB at 40 Hz)

 

Thats just copy and pasted from the website

 

Already bought it now and you guys obviously know more about this stuff, so ill take your word that it'll be fine.

now the fun bit is just trying to install it

[mcfly94 169]

yeah you got plenty of adjustment on that, you just need to know what they do to get your sound, tell us how you go, what the sounds doing for you and what you want to happen to the sound for it to sound better

[Crazy2287 1,886]

bought a new amp today. Ended up getting a Kicker KX200.2, when i was talking to the sales guy he said it was a pretty good amp. Not knowing much about them i went along with it.

My speakers are rated for 120RMS @ 4 ohms, whilst the amp is only 50RMS @ 4 ohms x 2 channels.

 

Cheers, Tom

Typically, you want an amplifier about 10% greater or more, output capacity in RMS than your drivers "speaker" nominal power handling.

The reasons are thus:

 

Amplifiers are rated at 14.4V Your car is never going to be supplying the amp with 14.4 volts. Realistically your amplifier will see voltages closer to 13.5v with the car running and under heavy load or when the car is off (battery only) this can drop to 12.4-10.5 volts or lower. Lower input voltage = lower output power. You amps are rarely going to be performing at their rated RMS.

A 100WRMS per channel amp at 14.4 volts. Will only be putting out 86.1WRMS at 12.4v, the cars electrical system voltage.

 

If a driver is designed to handle 100wrms, than it's motor is designed to work against that suspension, weight and size of the diaphragm and needs that power to properly control the driver cone at peak output. If you half power the speaker you will never get full noise out of it. The sound can turn sloppy and your response drop because the amp cannot supply the power to the motor required to control the diaphragm.

On top of this, if your trying to drive the amp harder than it can handle by inputting too much gain, you will get clipping of the waveform, This causes current spikes in the amp and driver voice coil which can burn out either the speakers voice coil, or the amplifier itself.

 

 

Can you run a 100wrms speaker with a 50wrms supply? Absolutely! yes you can. Just do not turn it up too loud.

Should you? IMO, no. Get an amplifier that's rating matches, or ideally, exceeds the rating of the driver. You will get the best performance out of your driver this way.

 

 

So IMO, take the amp back and get a bigger one, at least 120WRMS a channel.

[mcfly94 169]

id say a running electrical system is more around 13.6v crazy??? all my cars run around there, the xf drop to about 12.6v measured at the battery through the small 8awg, and ran at about 13.6 at the dash and engine

[slydog 7,873]

Wrong way around bro...buy a 1000000 RMS watt amp and a sound processing head unit and and fit what ever speakers you like the sound of and you will find the quality will be sexual.Think of the AMP as the engine,the head unit the gearbox and the speakers the diff.

 

I just got a Alpine head unit and Morel 6.5 splits and will run 2 DLS amps @ 2600 watts rms total.The beauty is the system will NEVER be stressed and the sound is above what your home system can do.My head unit   http://www.alpine.com.au/showItem.php?item_id=347 and speakers plus a install kit and dash kit cost under $500!These features were only found on $2000 processors 3 years ago.

 

Awesome audio is soooooo cheap these days it's silly.

[slydog 7,873]

Can you run a 100wrms speaker with a 50wrms supply?

 

I tell people to forget about and rating on speakers Q as they not needed on anything but a SPL car.Chose what you like the sound of and that ALONE.Nothing else not even brand or price.Fit a massive over kill amplifier and because the amp is never near half it's potential the sound quality is over the top and effortless.

 

I use a set of $200 Morel splits that shit all over the $700 DDDrive Alpine splits I had in our EF and the sub are a set of Eclipse 12" units I got for under $350 a pair and again they smash my old DDDrive Alpine subs that were $1000 EACH.Yes thats right each!

 

Money no object I'd do the same cos I like how they sound not whats written on the box.Even the DLS amps are what many would call old school cos there like 10 years old but the produce a REAL 1000wrms and 1600wrms for the mono block.Stupid power but the speakers never suffer cos the system never goe's into distort and SPL limit on your ears is reached first.

[Crazy2287 1,886]

Fly:

Voltage measurements, to figure out what voltage the amp is getting, should be taken across the amplifiers positive and negative terminals during full load/full output, Use a low frequency test tone like 100hz?

Amplifier, alternator, wire diameter and battery (type, capacity and internal resistance) will all affect what this reading will be.

 

Agree Sly. Choose the speakers you want. Then get an amplifier that will exceed the power levels they require.

[THORNSPAWN 91]

Power handling is not an indication of output either, factory ratings are rarely accurate anyway, sensitivity is far more important.  Car audio speakers are generally in the mid to high 80s dB to low 90s which is the output at 1w/1m  (or 2.83v 8Ohm) which isn't good BTW. 

Lets say they have a nominal power handling of 60W and a sensitivity of 85dB they'd have a maximum output of 105dB for a pair,

So If you can find a set with a sensitivity of 95dB they'll make that 105dB at just 6W  making power ratings somewhat irrelevant

Now for comparison I have a speaker here that is 107dB 1W/1m so even at 1W it's louder (it also has a power handling of 500WRMS giving it an output of 134dB). 

[mcfly94 169]

yeah I went for high sensitivity speakers when I got my new ones, my infinities are are 95db, alpine are useless for that there all about 83db

[THORNSPAWN 91]

Good.  You'll rarely use more than 10W without your ears bleeding so don't worry about only having 50W

[Crazy2287 1,886]

The type X- 12" woofers are 83db and type R 12" are 84.7db. the type R- 6.5" splits are 88db and the type r 6x9's are 90db.

Remember, while sensitivity is a deciding factor in speaker selection, it is not THE deciding factor. Neither lower nor higher sensitivity has a direct link to higher or lower SQ, but the design of the speaker to make a higher SQ/SPL can sometimes be a factory in it's sensitivity.

It makes sense that the type x woofer with it's heavy reinforced cone will require more energy to move than a driver with a thin, lightweight cone. But a less rigid cone is more likely to distort. An example of this is the difference in volume level out of the type r 12" vs the type x 12" In this example, type R are for SPL and type X are for SQ. This relationship will not always exist, Poor manufacture and low quality components like magnet and suspension can give a cheap speaker with a good Sensitivity, just like it can cause one with low sensitivity. The sound out of both drivers will likely be crap.

 

As Rob said, Listen to the drivers on the demo-bords and pick one you like the sound of best that fits your price range. Or go for a driver the audiophiles are all stroking over.

 

here is a good thread with a heap of nerds talking about sensitivity.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1401092/sensitivity-please-educate-me

[slydog 7,873]

Audison amps,Focal speakers are what alot of SQ guys like.Personally I demoed some $700 Morels and some $1100 Focals and still would have chosen the $200 Morels I got purely for there presence and mid range thump which suits the style of music I listen too.The price was just a bonus but a good one...

 

I would like to see some more top end SQ installs in car's again as it seems they are dropping off for some reason? 

[PSI_LTD 37]

Dude ive got morel tempos running off 50wrms each.

absolutely rocking. Could use more power but sounds phenomenal as is

[slydog 7,873]

They are a seriously good sounding combo.The depth and clarity is awesome but there punch is the best part for me.I havn't even got any subs in the ute yet and it kicks along great.

[mcfly94 169]

I demoed the $1200 focals, and wow, nothing ive heard can compare as yet, wouldn't mind hearing these morels. dunno if anyone in sa stocks them.

[slydog 7,873]

And for subs Velodyne....mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[PSI_LTD 37]

Mate, u better have an A+++ installation to get the value out of those $1200 focals

[mcfly94 169]

yeah id probably have to spend more on installation of dynamat etc, noise cancelling then the speakers themselves