xm falcon engine build

[xdfairmont79 135]

righto so iv got an old pre crossy out of an xt ute, its going to be done up for my xm and then it will be on the road.. i havent got very far with it yet haha its still in the xt ute but for the moment i would like to know the little tricky things about them i have to watch out for when im building it/ evaluating the block  the head is not a problem i have a 2v head i bought a few years ago already being rebuilt for my xy falcon 500 but i will use it on the xm instead as we have gone the original route with the xy. 

 

 

this is the ute the engine is coming out of. im not sure if it is a 200 221 or 250 maybe even smaller but its not the original engine and the guy we got it from had xb's and xc's lying everywhere so the chances its a 250 are high. i dont really care what ci it is tbh but a 250 would be good. 221 is my next best always loved that number hahahaha.. anyway so thats the plan. its going in front of a 2 speed fordomatic aswell. and for my xm which is bassically a beach cruiser type car it will be very throw back mexican blanket seats type epicness! also if you have any good xm parts or know where some are contact me. thanks  

 

Cam types would be good aswell cause i want it to be tourquey and loud hahaha.

 

[xm-221 1,803]

221 is easily identified, it's cast into the crank. Pull the sump and have a gander. 2V head will go great on a 221 or 250.

[Thom 6,650]

2v 221's are an awesome little engine, I'll game t ask my old man on the weekend but apparently there's are some fitment issues with the two speed auto and the 12 main bearing engine, from what ive been told XP had a spacer/adapter to fix the issue

[ando76 4,354]

pre-crossflow 250 into xm. 

 

1. Have to modify front x member for sump clearance.  Cut an inch out of it and weld in flat plate.

2. Lower front sway bar mount with 10mm aluminium spacer again for sump clearance.

3. Use XL engine mount lowers as these are easy to notch out to get the engine back far enough so that you can run an engine driven fan.

4. Use XM-XP top engine mounts but they will only pick up two of the three mounting holes in the block.

5. Ditch the idea of running a 2 speed fordomatic.  They suck.  C4 and buy x member from Castlemaine rod shop or mod XY x member. 

6. Slot x member mounts to allow gear box to go back as far as possible. 

7. Get a three core radiator cause they will over heat without one.  If you are not worried about originality cut the radiator support out and fit a

    bigger radiator - you will need it. 

8. buy a good starter blanket - you will kill starters without one.

9. As for cam - I just rang CROW and said I want a hydraulic cam with good lump at idle and good torque.  Can't remember the grind but it was spot on.

10.  Be ready to pull the engine and gearbox out 20 times, you will, trust me.

 

Um if I think of anything else i'll let you know.  Will dig through my squire photos to show my completed installation. 

[xdfairmont79 135]

pre-crossflow 250 into xm. 

 

1. Have to modify front x member for sump clearance.  Cut an inch out of it and weld in flat plate.

2. Lower front sway bar mount with 10mm aluminium spacer again for sump clearance.

3. Use XL engine mount lowers as these are easy to notch out to get the engine back far enough so that you can run an engine driven fan.

4. Use XM-XP top engine mounts but they will only pick up two of the three mounting holes in the block.

5. Ditch the idea of running a 2 speed fordomatic.  They suck.  C4 and buy x member from Castlemaine rod shop or mod XY x member. 

6. Slot x member mounts to allow gear box to go back as far as possible. 

7. Get a three core radiator cause they will over heat without one.  If you are not worried about originality cut the radiator support out and fit a

    bigger radiator - you will need it. 

8. buy a good starter blanket - you will kill starters without one.

9. As for cam - I just rang CROW and said I want a hydraulic cam with good lump at idle and good torque.  Can't remember the grind but it was spot on.

10.  Be ready to pull the engine and gearbox out 20 times, you will, trust me.

 

Um if I think of anything else i'll let you know.  Will dig through my squire photos to show my completed installation. 

 

thanks haha i dont think the crossmember should be a problem? why would it be different on a 170 to a 250? id rather change the sump than cut the crossmember probably... also i dont want to change the fordomatic because i like it belive it or not. not everyone has a two speed auto gearbox. i  might change it later but im on a ver tight budget. 

 

 

2v 221's are an awesome little engine, I'll game t ask my old man on the weekend but apparently there's are some fitment issues with the two speed auto and the 12 main bearing engine, from what ive been told XP had a spacer/adapter to fix the issue

 

hmm ok ill have to look into this.. sounds about right haha more hard to find expensive items :/

[steve mcqueen 1,796]

Im gonna say its a 221 in the XT. Yeah fitting a 250 into XM requires mods as ando has said. Its a long engine in the XM bay and trying to fit the standard blade/water pump fan is impossible. Thermo fan will be your friend here. Yep skip that 2 speed, id be happy with even a BW35 or better still a BW40 behind it.

Castlemaine do a lot of good stuff for early XM/XP falcon, check em out.

http://www.rodshop.com.au/index.html

[ando76 4,354]

The x-member will be a problem - remember I have done this conversion.  The 170-200 cu in motors are completely different to 221-250.  The sump is way bigger on the later model engines.  Here is a photo of the engine bay of my squire wagon just to prove I'm no keyboard expert and the second photo is of me and my wife at Summernats.  If you read my display board you will see my name on it, just to prove I actually own the car.   

 

 

 

I didn't modify the x member on mine.  Instead I spent what seemed like one hundred hours modifying the sump for clearance around the x-member.  Having done it that way I would never do it again as modifying the x member is so much simpler and really more effective than having a lump in the sump.  But you choose your way, but trust me you will have issues.

 

Fitting an engine driven fan is not impossible.  I know as mine runs one, but out of the 400 hundred photos I have of the woody, none show the engine driven fan so I will go into the shed today and take a photo of the bay from the side just to prove it is not impossible.  You just need to follow the steps I outlined above, or not, your choice.  I wanted an engine driven fan as I live in Cairns and it gets bloody hot up here. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Thom 6,650]

I though the 200 and 250 were the same block, or didn't that happen until xflow?

[ando76 4,354]

Not until x-flow. 200 in xm-xp - (super pursuit) is the same block as 144,170,200. from memory they are only 5 main cap bottom ends and the later blocks are 7, like x flow.  I have a 200 SP in the shed and the sump is the same as 170 but way different from late model. 

[gerg 10,871]

144/170/200 blocks were yank designs, XT & XW had the taller Aussie block starting with the 188/221 engines, then with XY they went out to 250, but also offered a 200 in that same block, destroked.

 

The later 200 has no relation to the earlier one other than bore and stroke, and maybe cylinder head. I'm not sure of the changeover, but I think they went to 7- bearing cranks from 188/221 onwards.

 

The Aussie sixes stayed this way till the crossflow came out in 76. They then went metric with sizes: 3.3 & 4.1.

[xdfairmont79 135]

ok cool, i think ill do the sump stuff it is harder but.. my mind says dont cut the crossmember... i live in moranbah which is inland from mackay so its fing hot here too and i can see why it would need an engine driven fan.. is it possible to put a 2v head on a 170?

because that might be the easiest. hahah

[ando76 4,354]

I spoke to an engineer about cutting the x-member and welding in flat sections.  He was cool with the mod provided weld quality was there and material thickness was no smaller.

Not sure on the 2v head on the 170 but I reckon that would suck.  Something in my head tells me that the 221 block had a smaller water pump protrusion.  Now I've killed a good many brain cells since then so I may be wrong, but if you have a 221 block you may find the engine driven fan thing easier. 

I know where Moranbah is - good speedway out there and you guys are holding the Qld title there next year.  I should be there racing if all the moons and stars align. 

When I did the engine driven fan thing thermo fans were not as good as what they are today.  Perhaps a set of ef fans and a modified radiator support panel to take an XH radiator might be the go.  I'm thinking of going that way with the turbo sedan delivery as I'm not worried about originality like I was with the woody ( 1 of 3 grey ones). 

Good luck

[gerg 10,871]

ok cool, i think ill do the sump stuff it is harder but.. my mind says dont cut the crossmember... i live in moranbah which is inland from mackay so its fing hot here too and i can see why it would need an engine driven fan.. is it possible to put a 2v head on a 170?

because that might be the easiest. hahah

 

Remember 188/221-onwards had 7- bearing crank, able to support more horsepower. Early shitty 4-bearing crank with a 2V head that supported 170 hp standard is a ticking time bomb. I'd do the mods and never look back.

[xdfairmont79 135]

Remember 188/221-onwards had 7- bearing crank, able to support more horsepower. Early shitty 4-bearing crank with a 2V head that supported 170 hp standard is a ticking time bomb. I'd do the mods and never look back.

 

true true.. ahh well ill go the modding sump route then because im not cutting the crossmemebr i dont care how hard it is im just ocd about that sort of stuff.. and yea ill go off of ando's recommendations about the other stuff

[ando76 4,354]

If I get five minutes this week I'll go into the shed and take a photo of my sump on the woody for you to give you a guide. I'll also take a photo of the engine driven fan I promised the other day. Hopefully the machine shop will be finished my block on Tuesday so I will be in town anyway and can get the pics. If you have access to a TIG for the sump mods you will be miles ahead. Mig welds on sumps have to be spot on, otherwise they leak. I fill my sumps with water, then petrol and finally inox to get the last little pin holes out of them. All of the ones I have had tig welded have been spot on first time. Hmmm need to learn how to do that one day...

[xdfairmont79 135]

If I get five minutes this week I'll go into the shed and take a photo of my sump on the woody for you to give you a guide. I'll also take a photo of the engine driven fan I promised the other day. Hopefully the machine shop will be finished my block on Tuesday so I will be in town anyway and can get the pics. If you have access to a TIG for the sump mods you will be miles ahead. Mig welds on sumps have to be spot on, otherwise they leak. I fill my sumps with water, then petrol and finally inox to get the last little pin holes out of them. All of the ones I have had tig welded have been spot on first time. Hmmm need to learn how to do that one day...

 

thanks man any help is greatly appreciated. 

[ando76 4,354]

Okay so I found 5 minutes - well actually I had to go in town to pick up my freshly machined block - so I took the pictures I promised.  As you can see an engine driven fan is not impossible.  Just follow the steps I outlined initially and you will be fine.  I really should make up a shroud one day.

 

 

 

 

 

This is the best pic I could get of the sump mod.  As you can see it is real tight.  I strongly recommend cutting the x-member for clearance.  If you are handy with a 5" grinder with a mic hair cut off wheel you could cut the offending section out, invert it and weld it back it.  Bet a roadworthy bloke would never pick it.  Suggestion only.

 

 

 

There is also the option of slotting the x-member holes a bit or even adding a piece onto it to lower it enough to give clearance. 
 

 

 

[xdfairmont79 135]

Okay so I found 5 minutes - well actually I had to go in town to pick up my freshly machined block - so I took the pictures I promised.  As you can see an engine driven fan is not impossible.  Just follow the steps I outlined initially and you will be fine.  I really should make up a shroud one day.

 

 

 

 

 

This is the best pic I could get of the sump mod.  As you can see it is real tight.  I strongly recommend cutting the x-member for clearance.  If you are handy with a 5" grinder with a mic hair cut off wheel you could cut the offending section out, invert it and weld it back it.  Bet a roadworthy bloke would never pick it.  Suggestion only.

 

 

 

There is also the option of slotting the x-member holes a bit or even adding a piece onto it to lower it enough to give clearance. 

 

 

thanks ando, yea i know it would be easier but i just couldnt bring myself to do it! i want to go the easy way but i just cant sorry haha.

 

the sump mod doesnt look too complicated! it would be a pain but its not a massive screw around id say probably take me a week though..

[ando76 4,354]

Ok well don't say I didn't warn you. A week - hmm we will see about that.

 

Just thought of another way around the sump clearance issue. Add a 10mm plate to the top of the chassis fixed engine mount. Not the bit that bolts to the block - the piece that bolts to the chassis. If you use xl versions of these they have a nice flat pad to work with. You could slot the mounts to get the engine as far back as possible then weld on a piece of 10mm plate on top.

 

The engine mounts are cast steel so mig welding to them will not be a problem. Then if you slot the holes in the x-member to lower it you would have to be well on your way to getting clearance.

[steve mcqueen 1,796]

 Here is a photo of the engine bay of my squire wagon just to prove I'm no keyboard expert and the second photo is of me and my wife at Summernats.  If you read my display board you will see my name on it, just to prove I actually own the car.   

 

 

 

 

That's abit harsh dude, hope you not implying "im a keyboard warrier"?

We did the pre crossy conversion and 4 speed single rail on my sisters XP ute, we didn't have to chop or mod cross members or sumps.

Did a pre crossy conversion on a XM convertible with a BW35, again no cross member or sump mods. Pulled the running gear from an XB Falcon

for that one, do you think we could put a blade/waterpump fan in there?  Nope!

We had to use a davies craig fan as there was just no room. 

Other mods also was gearbox mount and new handbrake position going with bigger donks.

Not saying "you no everything"

just saing from our experience this is some of the issues we had.

 

We checked out a lot of 250 conversions from other people in the XM/XP owners club and most of them have same probs.

[PRO250 1,506]

im not sure about the XM XPs so on but ive done heaps of cortins in pre engines to xflows and basicly the same engine bar topend

 

even the pre sump bolts straight to a crossflow

 

you change the sump and pick up and mounts onto to the crossy and drop it in  

[ando76 4,354]

That's abit harsh dude, hope you not implying "im a keyboard warrier"?

 

 

Definitely not. I don't attack anyone personally, and certainly not by a forum post - its just not my style.  I'm sorry if I offended you.  I was just trying to prove the fact that I (like you) have done this conversion and these are the issues I came across.  

 

Yes some of the issues I created by wanting to run an engine driven fan.  As I said above, when I did the conversion thermo fans were not as efficient as they are now and because of where I live I needed an engine driven fan.  I still believe engine driven fans are good on these old girls as it fits in with the era, but each to there own. 

 

I'm going to try thermos on my turbo x-flow sedan delivery as I believe it fits with the technology being used with that engine in that application. 

 

I ran the photo of the engine driven fan because I thought you said it was impossible, but I knew it could be done and was offering the author of the thread proof that it could be done. 

 

Once again mate, sorry if I offended you, it certainly was not my intention.  I offer my thoughts, experience and pictures of my cars on this site so we can all learn from each others experience.