Performance mods tips

[Ando81 2,949]

Hey all, just been reading some of the tips in another thread about gaining extra grunt from a crossflow motor and am impressed with the knowledge of most people and am impressed with some of the hp figures that have been achieved. Just wondering if anyone can give me an opinion on solid lifters, a mate of mine races a crossy in a speedway xf and he tells me there is worthy gains to be made from installing solid lifters but thought that it was strange that I hadn't heard much about them on this site. Wouldn't mind getting a bit of extra grunt out of my crossy but am not all that keen on throwing big dollars at it. I liked the suggestion that PRO250 made of just throwing in a crow cam and having good diff gears to gain some easy hp. After talking to Dave at his house one day, he seems to know them quite well and he's a great fella. Anyway just throw some thoughts at me and I will be forever grateful

[Thom 6,650]

Solids do make more power but most of the time you need to upgrade your valvetrain as well, also solids usually.require more maintenance than a hydraulic, really it depends what you want to do with the car

[Ando81 2,949]

Ok, cheers mate. I don't drive it a lot, prob once a month so extra maintenance might not be too much of an issue.

[slydog 7,873]

You have to remember that this site is rather new and most of our info is still on the other site.It's not as easy as putting solid lifters on any camshaft either you have to get a solid lifter cam to suit your needs/wants.Plus the fact solid cams are dearer and the best/correct lifters are as dear as the cam in most cases.The valve train needs adjustable roller rockers and if stud mount machine work and guide plates for the pushrods.There is a very very very important run in procedure with special oil and light springs,then swap to the needed springs so add more money and time to it all.

 

Camshaft $300,Comp EDM Lifters $260,adjustable roller rockers bolt on $500,springs to suit your new camshaft as they need more seat pressure $200ish,new retainers and locks $150ish and thats if you don't want a big cam as a bigger cam needs single groove valves and new retainers and locks to suit $500ish right there atleast.Plus you still have top fit he new cam,check piston to valve clearance,then oils ans paste $75,run in cam and swap springs-shop price would be $300 I'd suggest.  

 

So basically there go solid cams for you as you don't want to spend money on it and thats just off the top of my head.You are like most other people who want a really fast cranky x-flow but want it for as cheap as possible when it just doesn't happen that way and 1 read of my thread should prove that point.Yes I tried to do it as cheap as possible and killed 4 cams and 3 sets of cast pistons hence my new roller cam,forged piston combo I should have done 5 years ago learnt the hard way.

 

Don't be offended as I was were you were a few years back but have moved on and found they can be a seriously disturbing engine if built right and they can embarrass some big $$$ cars easily but they as all other engines require the "correct package". 

[xeeclipse 37]

I know jack shit about crossflows but from my experience this is my verdict..... 

 

flat top pistons preferable but standard 20cc ok

shaved HF5-C2 head

210 single pattern cam

EFI manifold

extractors + 2/1/4 exhaust

LPG IMPCO SYSTEM

T5 manual

3.27 diff gears

 

14 degrees initial timing, Holley vacuum secondary springs for converter/mixer assembly

 

This setup may look lame but i can guarantee it would do a dead 15 in and XE-XF

[xeeclipse 37]

A cam over 210 degrees isn't advisable cause you bleed off too much cylinder pressure in the low rpm range and you'll lose economy. It will also be more forgiving to the standard steel rockers which are best kept under '500 thou lift

[Thom 6,650]

Sly's on the money there there a three things, horsepower cheap and reliable, you can ply have two out of the three

[Thom 6,650]

[mcfly94 169]

As sly didn't mention, but i was in the same boat, hated how my mates vy ecotec felt like it was twice the power but only 60kw more.

 

So i took some of his advice and setup a locked tfi ignition, it may not seem much , but yes performance gains for sure, its way more responsive, idles smoother and just makes more torque than it used to.

My setup is TFI dizzy Cost me $90 with new dizzy cap and rotor, MSD Street Fire which was $175, and MSD Blaster 3 Coil which was $70, locked the timing to 28.

 

Mine at first was a bitch to start, but...! i have improved this! oooooooh yeah! 50mm2 (0awg) cable for the win, upgraded my piss ant 8mm2 earth cable to 50mm2. Changed my earth setup, used to run an 8awg from battery to boot chassis, 8awg to battery to engine bay chassis and engine bay chassis to engine.

 

Now i have two no more than 400mm long earth cables which are so much better! one from battery to boot chassis and one from engine chassis to engine. And im yet to fit the power cable because yes im a retard and used 8awg for the starter which normally cant flow more than 90amps (why so dumb for) This should give the starter a kick in the arse.

 

Other mods i did, Full 2.5" exhaust! makes more power, i notice it especially in the top end (even though i don't go past 4.5K, so i can have a healthy standard engine), and full tri-y extractors.

The only other thing that isn't standard is slightly bigger intake and exhaust valves in the head.

 

But it sounds like you want a shit load more when you mention a solid cam..? am i right, atm i reckon my crossflow probably makes around 120kw at the engine only around 20kw gain, but yeah the difference is huge from standard.

[Ando81 2,949]

Ok....... Maybe I should have stated I'm not trying to race this thing, wanted a bit more grunt for overtaking and driving in hills. I understand if I wanted to race I would need a bigger cheque book, that's not gunna happen till the mortgage starts to decrease in size.

[slydog 7,873]

Who said anything about racing it bro? You don't need a solid cam to make it over take better either so perhaps a list of whats done to the car as it is and a clear list of what you want from it and people can answer your queries better.

 

Q took his mild x-flow powered XF sedan to Heathcote the other weekend and ran a un-tuned first attempt at drag racing 14.7.To put this into perspective a BA XR8 ute was given 8th's (yes almost a whole second head start) over his 250 5 speed xflow that had traveled 9hrs to get to the races on low profile tyres and far from ideal car set up.

 

His car has a very low 14 second pass in it by the MPH it was running which is nothing at all to sneeze at and all on a budget...

[Thom 6,650]

God that was good to watch, and the fact Q got so far im eliminations

[xeeclipse 37]

As sly didn't mention, but i was in the same boat, hated how my mates vy ecotec felt like it was twice the power but only 60kw more.

 

So i took some of his advice and setup a locked tfi ignition, it may not seem much , but yes performance gains for sure, its way more responsive, idles smoother and just makes more torque than it used to.

My setup is TFI dizzy Cost me $90 with new dizzy cap and rotor, MSD Street Fire which was $175, and MSD Blaster 3 Coil which was $70, locked the timing to 28.

 

Mine at first was a bitch to start, but...! i have improved this! oooooooh yeah! 50mm2 (0awg) cable for the win, upgraded my piss ant 8mm2 earth cable to 50mm2. Changed my earth setup, used to run an 8awg from battery to boot chassis, 8awg to battery to engine bay chassis and engine bay chassis to engine.

 

Now i have two no more than 400mm long earth cables which are so much better! one from battery to boot chassis and one from engine chassis to engine. And im yet to fit the power cable because yes im a retard and used 8awg for the starter which normally cant flow more than 90amps (why so dumb for) This should give the starter a kick in the arse.

 

Other mods i did, Full 2.5" exhaust! makes more power, i notice it especially in the top end (even though i don't go past 4.5K, so i can have a healthy standard engine), and full tri-y extractors.

The only other thing that isn't standard is slightly bigger intake and exhaust valves in the head.

 

But it sounds like you want a shit load more when you mention a solid cam..? am i right, atm i reckon my crossflow probably makes around 120kw at the engine only around 20kw gain, but yeah the difference is huge from standard.

Lol....man you have difficulty starting it because your cylinder pressures are peaking before the piston has a chance to reach TDC.

putting extractors, holley, msd on a stock cammed engine is pointless. These engines have the capacity and good breathing heads, just put a cam in it and be done with it Then you'll see what real power is.

My wagon weighs 200kg over a stocker and is still quicker down the quarter. A cam and good tune will wash 2 seconds off your quarter mile time.

I reckon a mild well built crossy can take it up to a 4L OHC engine no problems and heaps easier to modify and work on.

[PRO250 1,506]

mate fit a little 214 214 crow to it these cams will wake up a stock engine heaps and respond well to basic mods in a other wise stock engine the more you do the better they work ive gone 14.5 with this cam in a little sporty corty little randys corty runs the same cam and has gone a best of 14.7 both next to stock engines

 

you can go fast for cheap ive done it what rob is doing is real big performance ive been there and theres a point with these engines that they hit a wall and just bust everything i got sick of breaking them so lowered the revs and made the power lower in the rev range it was still a strong engine and did hold together as long as you kepet it under 6500rpm

 

solid cams are not needed in a basic street engine and like has allready been said require work 

 

when where you guys doing heathcote again? we where going to take beacon again this weekend but i think the weathers going to stop that, but now that ive fixed most of its issues changed the diff and got slicks cause last time out was shit and i want to drive cause that thing had heaps more in it

[mcfly94 169]

Lol....man you have difficulty starting it because your cylinder pressures are peaking before the piston has a chance to reach TDC.

putting extractors, holley, msd on a stock cammed engine is pointless. These engines have the capacity and good breathing heads, just put a cam in it and be done with it Then you'll see what real power is.

My wagon weighs 200kg over a stocker and is still quicker down the quarter. A cam and good tune will wash 2 seconds off your quarter mile time.

I reckon a mild well built crossy can take it up to a 4L OHC engine no problems and heaps easier to modify and work on.

i know that, but my car is almost starting exactly the same as before, just from upgrading my earths? probably start better then before when I actually tune the thing and upgrade the starter cable

[Ando81 2,949]

Thanks for the tips fellas, when I bought my xf the motor had been recently rebuilt but the details weren't all that clear of bits it had done so I will try to describe it the best I can.

Reco c1 head with all stock valves, porting etc but it did have 40 thou shaved off it to tidy up imperfections it had.

"EFI" cam, no idea of what make but apparently it has longer opening time to suit efi so I'm told.

ACL pistons 40 thou oversize, no description of piston type.

Stock dizzy and coil, reco stock weber carb on stock manifold.

Heat proof coated 6,2,1 extractors with 2.5" free flowing sports exhaust.

T5 box with 2.77 LSD.

I think that the diff gears may be the killer for driving in the hills and overtaking because the engine is only doing roughly 1950rpm @ 100km/h so it is not creating a lot of torque to cruise over slight hills on the highway, 4th gear is a better option and it is the same for overtaking. I am upgrading to 3.27 ed diff shortly so this should also improve the acceleration.

[SLO247 1,713]

Lower diff gears will definitely help. 2.77 is way too high to take advantage of the T5.

 

I think you will see a big improvement there.

[PRO250 1,506]

same cause its a 5 speed fit 3.45s that will wake it up

 

fit a c2 head and mill it to death that will up the compression ratio a fair bit and a bigger cam holley will see some good gains also

 

or fit a turbo mine still has 2.77s and still goes very well just stall it up and bye bye tyres LOL

[xeeclipse 37]

Bugger the holley....LPG all the way, these things drink fuel like a fish

[Trev Vaa 1,185]

i'd swap out your diff for a set of 3.23s if you are still driving it every day, 3.45s are awesome but they sit at about 2200rpm on the hwy @100k's with 225/55/16 tyres so its up to you if you dont mind having the slightly higher rpm go the 3.45s (you will find changing the diff gears actually helps with fuel economy)

 

as far as other upgrades... help it breathe before you do anything else, first thing i would do is a full exhaust from extractors to tip

from there look into the intake restrictions, what's a simple way to help air flow? could make a CAI for it, will help with the under bonnet and intake temps (this is why gt's had shakers and bonnet vents) then i would look into simple ignition upgrades, Mcfly94 is right about the dizzy mod i have seen it work before and it does seem to make a difference.

 

once you have all the basics sorted then you look at throwing a cam and intake manifold and carby on it, i think most people are using the aussie speed intakes on carby motors? i think they have the best average flow between the ports from memory. cam choice is up to you, and how you want it to perform etc

[slydog 7,873]

Awesome advice right there bro...I'd suggest the 3.45's too.

[xeeclipse 37]

A cam between 205-210 degrees duration is tailor made for a crossy IMO. Makes power from 2,000rpm and falls off a cliff at 4,200rpm. Kind to standard rocker gear, quiet valvetrain operation and smooth running.

[Trev Vaa 1,185]

that honestly depends on the person and application, some people are fine with having a lumpy idle daily, some want just a hint of a cammy idle, some want 6000rpm, some want 4000rpm.... while i agree there is cams more suited to daily driving, it really is an individual choice.

ive seen pretty awesome results from some of wades cams and theyre pretty soft on valve train, camtech has awesome performance but tend to be a bit harsher on valvetrain but with better economy... theres always trade offs....

 

let us know what you're looking for dude and we can help from there.... if you're going to put a cam in, get another head and get some port work done to it, breathing is how it all works, so even a quick clean up can make a noticeable difference wouldn't even cost you $500 for the port tidy up, a surface, and 5 angle valve job, then you just gotta fill the head up with the goodies!

depending where you live we can all reccomend people. i use Martini heads (bundoora vic), Rob has been in the business for that long he has forgotten more then most people know. according to him, 12 years is an apprenticeship (i think hes been doing this since the mid 60s) but each to their own.

[Ando81 2,949]

So without sounding retarded, is there a way that I can find out the specs of my cam that is already in my car. Would it be stamped on the end of the cam or would it be easier to get a degree wheel and play with that to find out specs. Just thought it may be worth finding out what I am really working with before I decide on what road I should take to get a bit more out of the old girl.

[Trev Vaa 1,185]

might be stamped on the end of the cam... might not... if its just the stock efi cam just about anything is an upgrade.