Crossflow ignition systems

[Robert Woolrich 0]

Hi, Crossflow owners...Can anyone please advise me if there is an electronic ignition conversion kit for a cortina 1978 4.1 250ci cast iron head motor? or falcon XC 4.1 6 cal with cast iron head, I just can seem to hunt one down anywhere? Rob PH: 0438 706 383

 

Boat use!! My XC motor is used in a boat now, so I guess a negative ground, motor details are as follows…
My Distributor says both Bosch and Motorcraft on it with numbers..
76DA-12100-CA
U-PFU 6
9 230 062 628

Rob PH: 0438 706 383

My Xflow engine numbers.
76DA 6015-CA
JG23DA74580C
Ford Cortina 4.1-Litre manufactured or sold in 1978, version for Australia petrol (gasoline) engine with displacement: 4089 cm3 / 249.5 cui, power: 92 kW / 123 hp / 125 PS ( SAE net ), Torque net: 289 Nm / 213 lb-ft

I'm just looking for an Electronic Ignition conversion kit? Cheers. Rob

[Outback Jack 6,352]

Just grab an MSD Rob, If it's in a boat, they have one for marine applications (we used a standard MSD, just make sure it's outta waters way) and grab yaself a coil to suit.

Your 4.1 will take an EST dizzy which are easy to find,  use that and wire up a basic MSD........done.

 

Jack.

[Robert Woolrich 0]

Hey Jack,  

   Sorry I'm mucking things up a bit, ( I'm new to this ) Here is the engine details.. Would you be able to send me some links to buy re the items you mentioned? or similar. Rob

[Robert Woolrich 0]

Hey Jack ,,,

           Thanks for your info, I'm new to this…I'm looking around but struggling.. Is this one OK ? they say its better, whats your opinion?  

file://localhost/Users/administrator/Desktop/DISTRIBUTOR%20ELECTRONIC%20SUIT%20FORD%20FALCON%20XD%20XE%20XF%206%20CYL%203.3L%204.1L%20REMOVE%20EST%20ECU.webloc

 

file://localhost/Users/administrator/Desktop/New%20Genuine%20*%20BOSCH%20*%20Distributor%20Dizzy%20For%20Ford%20Falcon%20ED%20EL%20XG%20Ute%20:%20Van%204.0L.webloc

 

Do you have any links that may help Jack? Regards. Rob

[Outback Jack 6,352]

This is the way to go....

Made for cross flows.

http://www.kustombitz.com.au/p/7064446/ford-crossflow-6-cyl-ice-ignition-kit---high-energy-ignition-system---street-series-7-amp-vacuum-advance-7640mv.html

You just need an electronic dizzy.

 

Or....

 

http://www.msdperformance.com/streetfire/cdiignition.html

 

Or.... cheap arse option , if you can find one to suit a 4.1 is just a dizzy module...

 

http://www.hot-spark.com/1-3FOR6U1.htm

 

Jack.

[Robert Woolrich 0]

Hi Jack, Unfortunately they couldn't help me…But I did find this with their referral…  file://localhost/Users/administrator/Desktop/Pertronix%20Ignitor%202.webarchive

Regards. Rob

[slydog 7,873]

Doe's a late model dizzy fit in the 76DA block ? Id imagine so.Find a electronic unit out of a XE and slip that in for vac advance.   

[broken-wheel 659]

you need to machine the block, or the dizzy

[ando76 4,354]

I machined the bottom of an XE dizzy a fraction to fit into the pre-crossflow block in the woody.  still working fine to this day.  mind you it is just a cruiser and I never flog it.  it sees 4500 and then shift. 

[Banno 479]

Quick question guys. I know this will differ from engine to engine combo. But what spark plug gaps are you running from factory settings. I have my ignition up and running and tuning it from what works and what doesn't since the engine now behaves in such different manner. Must say big difference.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[broken-wheel 659]

Autolite's and .8 gap with stock coil and 1.2 1.3 on the 7 series

[slydog 7,873]

30-35th

[Mixalis 266]

Hi everyone reviving this thread again for some more ignition talk.

 

Im getting ready to upgrade my one, its on a high comp mild 250 crossflow thats 99% street driven, makes good HP for what it is but its still running the standard inductive ignition from factory with standard replacement coil. Engine pretty much starts stumbling at around 4800rpm or so which is exactly what i expect of it since ignition is all standard, plus programmable ignition is something I'm looking forward to as its very sensitive to timing inputs and likes to detonate unfortunately (being high comp & iron head). Im also running the XE Chopper style dizzy which is going to get replaced.

 

So I've got my hands on a MSD Digital 7 7530. What I'm planning on running now is an XF TFI distributor (no module) with a Master Blaster 2 coil to accompany the ignition. Again, being mainly a street driven car i don't think i necessarily want to go to a HVC coil i think the canister type should be fine (and better for coil temps) but please leave opinions if theres something I've missed. Also, is it true that the distributor will need to get machined to fit in my block (78DA block in a TE Cortina)? 

 

With the above said, please let me know if theres something I've missed and if anyone here is selling a TFI Distributor as I'm interested to buy. I think Ando you've said that the EST is basically the same halls effect dizzy and just as good? If thats the case that one will do as well

 

Cheers everyone

[broken-wheel 659]

Get the correct HVC coil or you will come back here and complain the MSD 7 Series is shit.

 

 

There is NO canister type coil that is compatible with the MSD 7 Digital.

 

The ms-8261 has no issues with the Digital 7, ZERO ISSUES and yes it's not cheap, I wouldn't even attempt to put a canister type in there but hey what do I know .....

[Mixalis 266]

Also while I've got you here, again i think its running massive cylinder temps and still runs on/preignites on warmer days after driving a bit, Ive gone to an NGK 7 plug and still does it, whats everyone else running? I know that the general rule is 75-100hp = 1 plug colder, i feel like it should be more cylinder temp dependant like compression ratio for example, and that site had recommended based on what i have to go like 5 ranges colder?? So i just went with 2 colder and it still does it so any input will be helpful cheers

[Mixalis 266]

Get the correct HVC coil or you will come back here and complain the MSD 7 Series is shit.

 

 

There is NO canister type coil that is compatible with the MSD 7 Digital.

 

Hi mate thanks for response, i was aware of this but I also heard that there not very compatible for street driven cars as they generate a lot of heat. I also have spoken to someone that has run a canister coil with the Digital 7 and it has worked. Its not a matter of price its a matter of street ability and if the coils will work but one is more street friendly but won't be as 'powerful' then I'm ok with it, however if its a case of it NOT working at all then thats a problem. Again i can't see why a canister wouldn't work being run off a similar CDI box but thats why I'm here

[broken-wheel 659]

Well the problem is there are too many idiots on internet who talk crap etc etc.

 

http://www.msdignition.com/Products/Coils/Race/8201_-_Pro_Power_Coil.aspx

 

"For MSD 7ALs, 8 and 10 Ignitions only, not for use on street vehicles"

"The MSD Pro Power Coil is a great choice for short duration applications such as drag racing."

 

So people can't read the difference between MSD Digital 7 and MSD 7 and use the cheapest coil available to them and what do you know? now the internet is full of the rumours of a cheapass  

 

​Use the chart and buy the correct coil!

 

http://www.msdignition.com/Products/Coils/Race/8261_-_HVC-2_Coil,_7_Series_Ignitions.aspx  <-------USE THIS with the MSD Digital 7 Series

Maximum voltage: 45,000 Volts Peak current: 2 Amps Spark duration: 150 uS

 

 

http://www.msdignition.com/Products/Coils/Race/8251_-_Pro_Power_HVC_Coil,_Use_w/MSD_7_Series.aspx <------ USE THIS with the MSD 7 Series

Maximum voltage: 45,000 Volts Peak current: 1.1 Amp Spark duration: 150 uS

 

 

Big difference in the AMP's it puts out?  When you add compression and RPM you need those AMP's to light up the spark if you use the wrong coil then you're, it will heat up.

 

 

 

If you have issues with detonation you might want to invest in this: http://www.msdignition.com/Products/Accessories/Digital_Acc_/7555_-_Spark_Plug_Wire_Sync_Kit.aspx

 

 

This will let the MSD 7 Series do individual cylinder timing which is great if you have a not so even flowing intake manifold, you can retard timing on specific cylinders etc.

 

The Digital 7 is a serious piece of kit in the right hands.....

[slydog 7,873]

EDIT ^^^ Useful info there but cleaned a bit.

[Mixalis 266]

No worries, managed to get a read before you cleaned it up Rob, ignitions must be a touchy subject for you broken wheel lol getting a bit worked up for no reason mate but the info was good regardless which is what I'm here for at the end of the day. Heres a comprehensive compatibility list i have found ill leave it here incase in helps anyone else in the future:

http://www.msdignition.com/instructions/Products/frm29700_coil%20compability.pdf

Good to see there are some 7 digital compatible HVC coils that are more geared towards extended driving which is exactly what i was looking for so will be getting one of them instead. Still curious as to why those canister types are not useable, would be good to know what the reason is. Like i said mate wasn't price, at the time i was under the impression only one type of coil was compatible which didn't sound very street friendly so was curious to see what alternatives were out there and if a canister type would be plausible. 

 

EDIT: the 2009 revised link i have posted above reckons that the MSD 8202 Blaster 2 is in fact compatible with the Digital 7 and thats straight from MSD

Edited March 8, 2016 by Mixalis

[slydog 7,873]

TBH I use the red Pro Power HVC unit,P/N 8251 and it has seen road miles but never long extended sessions so can't confirm or deny its worth.Do know I gained 10hp on the dyno by swapping from a 6AL2 blue HVC to Digital7 programmable and the above mentioned coil though.

 

As for the TFI dizzy,a EST will do too. 

[Mixalis 266]

Cheers Rob will bank that info. Yeh mine doesn't exactly see big kilometres, more like if i take it out theres a good chance that it might be an extended trip so I'm trying to factor that in, just trading off some HP in the process. 10rwhp gain on something that wasn't exactly cheap to begin with is nothing to sneeze at tho

[ando76 4,354]

Not a fan of big comp on iron heads without really good fuel and timing control.

 

I'd stick with the coil recommended by MSD. I fell victim to the 'she'll be right' coil on my burnout ute. Thing missed and banged and farted on the dyno. I'd previously used the same coil with a 6 plus so I thought it'd be right with the 6al2 programmable even tho I new in my heart I was being slack. Yep it needed the hvc2 coil I had left at the shed. Changed it the next day and took it to the skid comp and all sweet.

 

Est or tfi will be fine. EST seem more prevalent

[Mixalis 266]

Cheers Ando. Yeh unfortunately combo is all I have on at the moment but have got my hands on an alloy head which ill be getting work done to and then ill put it together with some new bits and throw that on mine. Note taken good to hear some real world experience then, something to keep in mind. 

 

So will those dizzys need machining to fit into 78DA block in your experience? 

[slydog 7,873]

The digital7 Programmable is as stated a serious piece of kit fo sho but to use features like individual cyl timing and such you need to go crank trigger and maybe sequential ignition.I havn't fully read it all yet but thats the feeling I'm getting.

 

The benefit of it is with a heat gun/ (EGT sensors would be better) you can do a pull checking EGT as your tuning tool and if certain cyls are colder than others which can be caused by cyl head exhaust camshaft inlet or many thing's infact you just add timing to that cyl till you get a even plug read and cyl temps.Could be a hole in fuel distribution as well but that would show as hotter cyl's usually.Not uncommon to see a engine with say 28 degree's on 4 of 6cyl's and 31 on x cyl and 30 on y cyl. There's a "real" hp gain there too. Mossy found a few on the dyno by doing this but he uses a Grid Box.    

[ando76 4,354]

Nah mate. Straight in. 78da is old rope seal rear main with cortina dipstick hole drilling from memory. Pretty sure that's what the MSC block is. Need to get onto that too... Damn.