Crossflow ignition systems

[slydog 7,873]

Here's 7000rpm and Ryan's sounds this atleast...

 

[ando76 4,354]

You couldn't use a standard missing tooth wheel if you didn't want to run an ECU. You would need a 3 tooth (or notch) wheel installed at the proper phase to emulate the 6 vein pickup in the dizzy. this signal sent to the MSD, timing would then be controlled by moving the 3 tooth wheel pickup(hall sensor), not the distributor.

 

Ok so my idea of trigger the MSD with the standard balancer/equipment is out.  Bugger.  Oh well Chev balancer and MSD universal kit it is.  Thanks for your input. 

[mcfly94 169]

Ok so my idea of trigger the MSD with the standard balancer/equipment is out.  Bugger.  Oh well Chev balancer and MSD universal kit it is.  Thanks for your input. 

what? can you put a chev balancer on a 250 crank?

[Crazy2287 1,886]

Ok so my idea of trigger the MSD with the standard balancer/equipment is out.  Bugger.  Oh well Chev balancer and MSD universal kit it is.  Thanks for your input.

A quick look at MSD shows these:

http://www.msdignition.com/Products/Crank_Triggers/Crank_Triggers/8600_-_Chevy_Small_Block_6_inch_Balancer_Crank_Trigger_Kit.aspx

 

I assume thats what you were talking about with "universal kit". No mention of support for any other kind of trigger wheel so yeah..

I mean, if you're Really keen you could get some rare earth button magnets and have them mounted every 90º into the e-series balancer.

 

Whenever you use a multi tooth wheel It is actually a Variable Reluctance (VR) sensor. Hall effects need a magnet. Some of the terminology i have used up there ^^^^ confuses the 2 technologies. It doesn't look like MSD supports VR at all?

 

Fancy some easy reading?

http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/pickups.htm

[Tyler06 266]

 

Andy, the MSD gear will trigger form the hall effect pulse received by the TFI Distributor no worries. Heaps of guys are doing it. up to and in excess of 6000rpm.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know of 1 that hits 7200RPM...and it's not mine.Wazzy pull's his to 7200 but stops there due to his cast pistons from memory but his crank trigger worked wonder's he claims.Funny but I'd like to see which parts seem to work better avoiding/limiting spark scatter such as blocks cranks,cams,cam types and ignitions systems.

 

There's a XE from WA owned by Ryan Humphies that use to have 250 power and he would turn that to 7500rpm and bang gears thru a Top Loader but I don't know what his ignition was.Use to just stick it full tilt on the limiter for minutes...YIKES!

 

 

he had 6al-2 and mag pickup dizzy.

[Tyler06 266]

 

Ok so my idea of trigger the MSD with the standard balancer/equipment is out. Bugger. Oh well Chev balancer and MSD universal kit it is. Thanks for your input.

 

 

what? can you put a chev balancer on a 250 crank?

 

i know of 3 people 1 being myself with chev balancers lol

[ando76 4,354]

A quick look at MSD shows these:

http://www.msdignition.com/Products/Crank_Triggers/Crank_Triggers/8600_-_Chevy_Small_Block_6_inch_Balancer_Crank_Trigger_Kit.aspx

 

I assume thats what you were talking about with "universal kit". No mention of support for any other kind of trigger wheel so yeah..

 

 

No crazy the 8655 from MSD.  It has everything needed for 4,6,or 8 cylinder set ups.  Bolts up to the ATI chev balancer.  Wazzy has done this. 

[Grimmy 312]

Thought I might save a new thread and ask here ,

Does any one know how to wire a msd street fire to an est dizzy with no modual ? Do I set it as a mag pick up , if so which wires on the dizzy are used ?

[slydog 7,873]

White trigger wire to green pick up on dizzy,red middle wire gets switched 12v power or red from MSD take your pick,black plug is earth and make it as short and as big as possible.

 

Orange to coil positive,black to coil negative.Set up as hall's effect...start and set timing around 28 degrees and work on it from there.You will now have locked timing with ZERO advance.

[Grimmy 312]

Thanks slydog . Wish I got msd when I first got it ! Guess I better go test out the limiter

[Paul Garrett 7]

Just curious as to why no one seems to rate ICE ignition systems? Aussie made & is now "selling sand to the arabs"!

[Crazy2287 1,886]

I rate the theory behind the system. But never used them.

Plenty of guys making big numbers with their stuff though!

MSD is just a more well known brand and cheaper....

[Tyler06 266]

Just curious as to why no one seems to rate ICE ignition systems? Aussie made & is now "selling sand to the arabs"!

ICE doesnt do a system specific to a crossy, i got a quote off them and they told me to use a TFI dizzy and off them i would get a 2 step setup, coil and leads for $1300. MSD was much the same except i can graph my own timing curves, run a map sensor, boost, NOS watever and for half the price. I would love an ICE ignition setup but really the cost well out ways the gain. Thats just my opinion..

[slydog 7,873]

Just curious as to why no one seems to rate ICE ignition systems? Aussie made & is now "selling sand to the arabs"!

 

Mate just bought a ICE setup for his Chev and he has 80 or something tunes to choose from...with a 6AL2 Programmable he could have tuned the advance to "suit" his engine combo.A case of close enough is not good enough IMO.Why be limited to what is provided when it can be tailored to suit is my argument.

 

I rate the theory behind the system. But never used them.

Plenty of guys making big numbers with their stuff though!

MSD is just a more well known brand and cheaper....

 

Cost is the biggest factor here Q,it just costs so much over MSD.I understand It should not be given away but it's twice the price.They appear to used with the Engine master cars ALOT and the Victorians use the gear solely on patriotism I belive not cost or features.

 

ICE doesnt do a system specific to a crossy, i got a quote off them and they told me to use a TFI dizzy and off them i would get a 2 step setup, coil and leads for $1300. MSD was much the same except i can graph my own timing curves, run a map sensor, boost, NOS watever and for half the price. I would love an ICE ignition setup but really the cost well out ways the gain. Thats just my opinion..

 

Same I rang and got told to use a EST dizzy with a almost $1300 kit with pre-set maps.

 

No again with out aussie bashing as the pollies do that well enough for us it is really just too dear for what you get.If the gap in HP,use and driveability between ICE and MSD was big enough to justify more people would use ICE but it just not there IMO.And funny enough I never considered MSD to be cheap either till I started getting serious with this x-flow....LOL

[Crazy2287 1,886]

you can Run them off the cars ECU and get spark tuned properly that way. This was my intention when i rang them for my quote, was going to be $600 or something i think, for what i wanted. which i think was just the coil and supply module.

But you can get an MSD that tuned spark maps so perfect for carby guys.

and if you do it right you could probably set a COP setup off your ECU, if it supports it, for under $600

[gerg 10,871]

I really like the simplicity of the MSD, if you can first get your head around the terminology they use. And fully progammable can't be beaten by any amount of preset maps by anybody. I can't vouch for the effectiveness of either system but as soon as the dollars are there I'll be going MSD all the way. On paper at least, it's way ahead of anything else out there for the money.

[broken-wheel 659]

Ok so my idea of trigger the MSD with the standard balancer/equipment is out.  Bugger.  Oh well Chev balancer and MSD universal kit it is.  Thanks for your input. 

Hey Ando, 

Sorry to drag this from the grave but ATI has a solution, http://www.atiracing.com/products/dampers/damperparts/trigger-shells.htm

You will need a mag pickup and it should work fine, order the one with 6 rib serpentine and change the pulley or use an EF (higher amps) alternator and no more flying belts.

 

With your EST did you only use the violet wire on the msd to green on the EST, red EST to ACC ON and Black EST to earth? I always used the white from MSD on the TFI PIP but the TFI module is coming apart, the bush is fucked and I'm trying an EST now. Not quite sure if the Violet wire gives better signal than the white

[ando76 4,354]

Nah you cant use the green violet to the msd with the EST or the TFI.  Both those dizzys give a hall effect signal. 

 

You can only use the green violet with the yuk poo XE chopper wheel style dizzy - as it is magnetic signal.

 

I ended up going with the ATI and universal MSD kit as Wassy was kind enough to lend me the template for universal msd plate so it was a straight bolt on.  Well it will be when I get my finger out and build the roller.

 

I did see that ATI stuff after I went with the universal kit - always the way.  Never mind I've got it now.

[broken-wheel 659]

cool, so I have to present a load to use it without the TFI module? If so what HEI sensor do they use? same as the GM one where you use a 100Ω 5watt job?

 

edit:

this should do it? Has anyone used the white wire with the MSD without the TFI module and still have the optical cam sync working? I guess with the load in place it's presents the same signal as the TFI module so it should work?!

[slydog 7,873]

The buffer circuit is only used on Digital6 and early MSD6Al that were not Hall's effect ready and needed to trim volts to make a logic 5v signal. But as new 6AL2 and even street fire are halls effect ready a trimmer/buffer of inline resisters is not needed.

 

Green direct to white from MSD

 

Red to 12volts switched

 

Black to earth 

[broken-wheel 659]

Do you know if the same holds true for the 7531? if so it will be no change in wiring except maybe find a plug to fit straight into the side of the EST dizzy back to the MSD and use the 12v switched (MSD turn on trigger) to power the HEI although might not be good idea send 12V through a wire next to the white wire

[slydog 7,873]

You were about to wire it up to 12volts switched so running power next to it ain't gunna bother it,there not enough grunt to create a field big enough to effect it.I'd suggest you look on the PDF if it is Halls effect stable or not.  

[slydog 7,873]

That statement means nothing to me Matt. Has nothing to do with been cheap and been drug up from 2013? 

 

Trying to bait me that bad...Pull your head in.

[slydog 7,873]

Well offering no help to the topic and raising a 2 year old post otaken out of context is baiting for a reply with no relevance.

 

And I don't see how any of what you wrote has helped anyone especially the above poster. So yes be involved and do help where you can but try not judge on what others may think belive please.

[slydog 7,873]

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