CHESTNUTXE 7,299 Posted October 28, 2020 ok thanks thom, i might grab it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CHESTNUTXE 7,299 Posted November 11, 2020 hey thom what is the difference between the xr6 red cover non vct and red cover tickford vct au engines ? is it the same head ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thom 6,650 Posted November 11, 2020 hey thom what is the difference between the xr6 red cover non vct and red cover tickford vct au engines ? is it the same head ? The vct head is a different casting to all other heads it has different oil passages and a mount for the vct solenoid, the au xr6hp (non vct) is a slightly different head from the standard au heads, it has larger exhaust valves, slightly better ports and a smaller combustion chamber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CHESTNUTXE 7,299 Posted November 11, 2020 ok cause down at the wreckers they are closing and hoiking shit in the bin fast i can get a std au intech for $100 same barra,but lets say i wanted to put a au engine in a xf or something which one would be the go the xr motor or vct motor,with putting 4 barrel manifold on it or not much difference in performance Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thom 6,650 Posted November 11, 2020 ok cause down at the wreckers they are closing and hoiking shit in the bin fast i can get a std au intech for $100 same barra,but lets say i wanted to put a au engine in a xf or something which one would be the go the xr motor or vct motor,with putting 4 barrel manifold on it or not much difference in performanceIf you're not going to run the computer avoid the vct engine as you will have no benefit from variable cam timing, without the ecu controlling it the vct solenoid just stays in one position 1 CHESTNUTXE reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CHESTNUTXE 7,299 Posted November 11, 2020 i see,so an xr6 tickford au engine with no vct would be the one to get. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outback Jack 6,352 Posted December 3, 2020 Hey@Thom ,Mate I may have to do a rebuild on an XG short motor I have in my spare ute or do the one up in the Red ute, as getting a bit of blow by and loss of power at mid-high revs in Big Red.What's the best bang for the buck bottom end I can put together, I want to up the compression with better pistons.But your the man to ask about combos that work.Am I OK using the XG bottom end or should I go a different combo as a base to start with.Much appreciate your input mate.Cheers.Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thom 6,650 Posted December 3, 2020 Unless you are thinking of boost, (a decent amount at that) the stock xg bottom end will be fine, most e series bottom ends are the same other than el hybrid have au size mains and the au long rod and ea has slightly beefier rods than other e series 1 Outback Jack reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outback Jack 6,352 Posted December 4, 2020 Unless you are thinking of boost, (a decent amount at that) the stock xg bottom end will be fine, most e series bottom ends are the same other than el hybrid have au size mains and the au long rod and ea has slightly beefier rods than other e series Cheers Thom, is there a stock piston I could use on the XG rods and bottom end to boost compression or just go after market slugs? I'm pretty sure when head was off XG pistons had valve reliefs and a dished top.Sorry to bug you mate, just might as well get it right.Thanks for your help.Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thom 6,650 Posted December 4, 2020 Cheers Thom, is there a stock piston I could use on the XG rods and bottom end to boost compression or just go after market slugs? I'm pretty sure when head was off XG pistons had valve reliefs and a dished top.Sorry to bug you mate, just might as well get it right.Thanks for your help.Sent from my S21 using TapatalkThe pistons were basically the same for e series au has a smaller dish but a longer rod, im unsure if you can use them in an e series engine you'd have to check if the skirts clear e series counterweights 1 Outback Jack reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outback Jack 6,352 Posted December 4, 2020 The pistons were basically the same for e series au has a smaller dish but a longer rod, im unsure if you can use them in an e series engine you'd have to check if the skirts clear e series counterweights Thanks mate. I will start looking around at aftermarket pistons.I'm hoping to find some with less dish or a flat top with valve reliefs cut in.Just two more questions. The bores when the head was off looked pretty good.The head had never been off from factory and bores where bang on standard for every cylinder when built at Ford.If I just re-ring it and hone the bores with new pistons, should I just go standard size rings or go one size up to 0.50mm?The piston size stays the same I take it.The only bit that concerns me is the big end bearings and connecting rod bearings. It's been a long time since I have done any of this, and if I replace them I want to do it right, so looks like I need some plasti-guage.Trying to get all the stuff I need and info before I start.Thanks mate.Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outback Jack 6,352 Posted December 4, 2020 Hey@Thom ,Think I have found my combo mate.Tell me what you think.Silvolite High Comp Pistons (5cc dish) to suit EA-EL with valve relief cut.Hasting Rings.ACL race series Main bearings and Big end bearings.JP Oil Pump. (Std or High flow)I have a choice of Standard or High flow oil pump, not sure which to go for and the Big end bearings also come in standard or extra oil.I take it the high flow pump goes with the extra oil Big End bearings or Standard pump and Standard bearings.Cheers mate,Jack.Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thom 6,650 Posted December 4, 2020 Thanks mate. I will start looking around at aftermarket pistons.I'm hoping to find some with less dish or a flat top with valve reliefs cut in.Just two more questions. The bores when the head was off looked pretty good.The head had never been off from factory and bores where bang on standard for every cylinder when built at Ford.If I just re-ring it and hone the bores with new pistons, should I just go standard size rings or go one size up to 0.50mm?The piston size stays the same I take it.The only bit that concerns me is the big end bearings and connecting rod bearings. It's been a long time since I have done any of this, and if I replace them I want to do it right, so looks like I need some plasti-guage.Trying to get all the stuff I need and info before I start.Thanks mate.Sent from my S21 using TapatalkAs far as the bore goes, I've never seen one that needed to be bored but it would be a good idea to measure it before buying rings/and or pistons ou may find rather than getting oversize rings getting a set of file fits will get you where you need to be, plastigauging the crank with the stock bearings and measuring the bearing shells compared to stock specifications will give you a good idea where you are at but I'd be surprised if it needed machine work giving the cars maintenance history Hey[mention=43]Thom[/mention] ,Think I have found my combo mate.Tell me what you think.Silvolite High Comp Pistons (5cc dish) to suit EA-EL with valve relief cut.Hasting Rings.ACL race series Main bearings and Big end bearings.JP Oil Pump. (Std or High flow)I have a choice of Standard or High flow oil pump, not sure which to go for and the Big end bearings also come in standard or extra oil.I take it the high flow pump goes with the extra oil Big End bearings or Standard pump and Standard bearings.Cheers mate,Jack.Sent from my S21 using TapatalkThe std volume pump is more than adequate for even most extreme builds, considering its a street engine and won't see constant racing conditions the std bearings will be adequate as well if you can find them ef to au have restrictors in the oil galleries to reduce the the amount of oil in the head and keep the bottom end properly lubricated, they just need the oil galleries drilled out to suit them 1 Outback Jack reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outback Jack 6,352 Posted December 4, 2020 The std volume pump is more than adequate for even most extreme builds, considering its a street engine and won't see constant racing conditions the std bearings will be adequate as well if you can find them ef to au have restrictors in the oil galleries to reduce the the amount of oil in the head and keep the bottom end properly lubricated, they just need the oil galleries drilled out to suit them Thanks soo much mate. Legend.I did think of just doing pistons and rings with a hone and maybe just chuck a new oil pump and bearings at it to be on the safe side. I just looked at the ACL race series bearings as I can get both sets for $210.Which is not bad at all for quality. The Slugs were the most expensive bit.... $500 for the set but will give me the compression I was after at 5cc dish as I think stock are 7-8cc dish?Correct me if I'm wrong.I think the 60 thou off the stock head, AU MLS head gasket and those pistons should get me to around 10-10.5 to 1 easy.n Hastings rings $128, which are quality too and last. Now I'm just looking at all the tools I need and extras.And plastiguage and Vernier calipers to measure it all..... Phew! Never ends... Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outback Jack 6,352 Posted December 4, 2020 These Slugs look soooo nice....They are the Silvolite ones. Droooool..... They say available in 020, 040,060 or 0.50, 1.0 and 1.5.So if I just honed the block would the 020 or 0.50 go in with 0.50 rings ok?Or am I up for some machining for a stock bore?Sorry it's been awhile, I'm a bit rusty. Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thom 6,650 Posted December 4, 2020 These Slugs look soooo nice....They are the Silvolite ones. Droooool..... They say available in 020, 040,060 or 0.50, 1.0 and 1.5.So if I just honed the block would the 020 or 0.50 go in with 0.50 rings ok?Or am I up for some machining for a stock bore?Sorry it's been awhile, I'm a bit rusty. Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk Anything more than .050 will most likely require a re bore 1 Outback Jack reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted December 4, 2020 Hey Jack, 0.2 mm is 0.008", so if you have less than 8 thou wear in the bore (and hopefully it's worn evenly and not barreled or tapered) then 0.2mm would file down to where you need it, albeit with some extra ring tension, but that's with old pistons. New 0.2 pistons will require some serious honing, not easily done with home garage tools in an accurate way. A shop hone generally takes off the last few thou after the borer has cut the bulk of the meat off. Sent from my CPH1920 using Tapatalk 2 Outback Jack and Thom reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outback Jack 6,352 Posted December 4, 2020 Anything more than .050 will most likely require a re boreThat's what I was thinking Thom.Be a nice tight fit anyway at 0.50.... take up some of that 300,000km wear....Hehe.This was the sticker on the back of the block, head had never been off and shows all bores as Standard, no over sizes.Head gasket was just about welded to the block after all those kilometers. LolBores weren't bad at all..So I'm hopeful of a nice hone and new bearings and she'll be apples.Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk 1 Thom reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thom 6,650 Posted December 4, 2020 That's what I was thinking Thom.Be a nice tight fit anyway at 0.50.... take up some of that 300,000km wear....Hehe.This was the sticker on the back of the block, head had never been off and shows all bores as Standard, no over sizes.Head gasket was just about welded to the block after all those kilometers. LolBores weren't bad at all..So I'm hopeful of a nice hone and new bearings and she'll be apples.Sent from my S21 using TapatalkBefore you got your ute the prev owner must have given it a hard time when cold, from what I've seen thats the best way to kill rings in a 4.0 1 Outback Jack reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outback Jack 6,352 Posted December 4, 2020 Before you got your ute the prev owner must have given it a hard time when cold, from what I've seen thats the best way to kill rings in a 4.0Yeah and I've had her for 10 years now.Hehe.Did the pics work? Don't for me.I misread what you said Thom, you said over 0.050 would require machining.So I guess 0.50 is machine shop time then.I always get confused on the measurents, so the pistons are 20 thou of an inch over or 0.50mm, correct?I see what your saying now Gerg.Excuse my stupid.Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk 1 Thom reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thom 6,650 Posted December 4, 2020 Yeah and I've had her for 10 years now.Hehe.Did the pics work? Don't for me.I misread what you said Thom, you said over 0.050 would require machining.So I guess 0.50 is machine shop time then.I always get confused on the measurents, so the pistons are 20 thou of an inch over or 0.50mm, correct?I see what your saying now Gerg.Excuse my stupid.Sent from my S21 using TapatalkSorry I should have specified .050inches not mm 1 Outback Jack reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outback Jack 6,352 Posted December 4, 2020 Hey Jack, 0.2 mm is 0.008", so if you have less than 8 thou wear in the bore (and hopefully it's worn evenly and not barreled or tapered) then 0.2mm would file down to where you need it, albeit with some extra ring tension, but that's with old pistons. New 0.2 pistons will require some serious honing, not easily done with home garage tools in an accurate way. A shop hone generally takes off the last few thou after the borer has cut the bulk of the meat off. Sent from my CPH1920 using Tapatalk Ok Gerg, might have to get the bores machined then....damn, was hoping to avoid that, Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk 1 gerg reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outback Jack 6,352 Posted December 4, 2020 Sorry I should have specified .050inches not mmThat's ok mate, its Friday night! hehe.So that means 020 or twenty thou over should be OK then?Which would be O.5mm?I'm confusing myself now, haven't had a Jacks....lol.Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted December 4, 2020 The machine shop will specify how big a piston you need when they cut the bores... Whatever they all clean up at is what size you need. You really can't know until that happens. If they come up fine at 20 thou (0.5mm) then that's the piston and rings you'll need. I don't think they can do a 10 thou cut as machining iron can't be done accurately without taking a certain size bite at a time (@thom can you verify?). If they wanted to go 10 thou only, a heavy hone would do the trick, but that wouldn't properly correct any barrel, taper or oval in the bore.Just for reference, piston clearance on a hypereutectic type is around 2.5 thou, and around 4 on a forged (as they expand more when hot). Only a light hone is acceptable for a standard piston, and only to re-texture the bore for the rings to bite into. Any more and your clearance is too much, and you'll be back where you started with blowby and oil consumption.Sent from my CPH1920 using Tapatalk 1 Outback Jack reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bear351c 10,270 Posted December 4, 2020 Buy your pistons first, (if ya need them) then the machine shop can measure each one and pick the largest to match the bore size. Yep, 40 thou is 1mm (approx) so a 0.020" cut would be 0.5mm, (or 10 thou each side of the cylinder.) 1 Outback Jack reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites