gerg 10,871 Posted January 28, 2019 1. Get a proper O2 sensor - EF/EL ran NTK's from factory. The aftermarket equivalent NTK part no. is OZA729-D2 They cost around $60. 2. you can't see TPS dead spots properly, without an ocilloscope. 3. check the Broadband Manifold vacuum actuator functions properly. 4. A failing hall effect sensor INSIDE the dizzy, often causes oddball running at certain RPM/re-starting issues. If it were my car, I would start with two things - a. get a proper O2 sensor, and hope you haven't burnt out the driver in the ECU. b. new hall effect sensor for the dizzy Those two, should be a good start. E-series wagons have a slightly lower diff ratio than the sedans (3.23 vs 3.08) Speaking from experience - Around town auto wagon fuel economy should be 12-15L/100km Highway = 8-10L/100km The sedans, are slightly more fuel efficient, but not by much. edit - the above figure are for OHC six. My EL V8 wagon, gets 15-17L/100km city, and 10-11L/100km highway. I think it needs O2 sensors though... OK then, I did take out the old O2 and it looked fairly clean. Soaked it in petrol overnight, very little carbon came out. Car has only 195k on the clock, pretty young for a Ford. I will order a new O2 next pay. Cheers for the part number Gotta spare brand new MAP sensor at work to throw at it. They don't tend to fuck up generally though, I imagine.The dizzy module definitely has something screwy about it. Wiggling it from the plug end (and scraping bits of bark off my arm) causes it to work/not work, so next chance I get, I'll try and pinch one from the wreckers, complete with sensor. Kids back to school Wednesday.TPSs are available online for about 30 bucks. Could just order one of em too. I'm a single dad going through separation, etc blah blah so money is scarce at the moment, gotta watch every cent now (hence the XE wags still being off the road).Broadband actuator works as required, not seized or sucking air.Burnt out the driver, you mean for the HEGO function? Fair enough. Didn't think of that. Hall effect sensor sounds like a shit to remove/ replace. Can it be done with dizzy installed/cap off? Sent from my CPH1607 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SPArKy_Dave 8,870 Posted January 28, 2019 14 minutes ago, gerg said: I'm a single dad going through separation, Burnt out the driver, you mean for the HEGO function? Fair enough. Didn't think of that. Hall effect sensor sounds like a shit to remove/ replace. Can it be done with dizzy installed/cap off? Sent from my CPH1607 using Tapatalk Well that sux dude... hopefully things turn out ok. I meant if you just plugged it in, with the polarity incorrect... The HEGO circuit is pretty basic on the e-series - just a relay which gets energised by the ignition circuit from memory. I definitely wouldn't go second hand for the Hall Effect sensor - that's inviting disaster. They're a semi-conductor switch, and their ability to switch correctly, wears out over time. https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/electromagnetism/hall-effect.html If the TFI feels loose or something, make sure it's still a factory Bosch Dizzy, and Motorcraft or Bosch TFI module. Yeah it's a distributor out job, to replace the hall effect sensor. (Ford calls it the PIP sensor - Profile Ignition Pickup) Edit - if the car has ever done a head gasket - coolant out the exhaust, then the O2 sensor can get contaminated. 1 gerg reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted January 28, 2019 Thanks for the advice, didn't know that about the PIP sensor. Now for the process of elimination. Sent from my CPH1607 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thom 6,650 Posted January 28, 2019 Dave's suggestions are a good start, but other things to check, is the cat falling apart or one of the mufflers may have a loose baffle? When you put the new thermostat in did you test it first? I have had a few that are 10 or more degrees out of their operating range right out of the box, if it's not running warm enough it will stay in cold start mode and just dump fuel in (but they usually still perform ok) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted January 29, 2019 No rattles out of cat, deleted rear resonator as it fell apart. Exhaust note sounds fine, doesn't hiss or whoosh or feel restricted when you plant it. It's mainly part-throttle acceleration where you feel the need to push further on the accelerator than what seems right. I will check further when I have it on ramps for an oil change. Maybe dump the exhaust at first joint and test drive. Economy is showing correctly through the trip computer so the ECU knows how much fuel it's injecting (ie not a stuck fuel regulator or sucking through diaphragm).Tried running with temp sender disconnected (gauge goes to max, fans come on) economy didn't change, so coolant temp sender is doing its job. Yesterday's run was better, 13.4 with a trailer full of furniture and some stop/start driving. Sent from my CPH1607 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CHESTNUTXE 7,308 Posted February 11, 2019 hey is my 3.9i eb 1 engine the same as ea ? just wondering if it has that bigger cam than later 4.oL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thom 6,650 Posted February 11, 2019 If the cam has a 91da part number you should have the correct cam Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted February 11, 2019 Well that sux dude... hopefully things turn out ok. I meant if you just plugged it in, with the polarity incorrect... The HEGO circuit is pretty basic on the e-series - just a relay which gets energised by the ignition circuit from memory. I definitely wouldn't go second hand for the Hall Effect sensor - that's inviting disaster. They're a semi-conductor switch, and their ability to switch correctly, wears out over time.https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/electromagnetism/hall-effect.html If the TFI feels loose or something, make sure it's still a factory Bosch Dizzy, and Motorcraft or Bosch TFI module. Yeah it's a distributor out job, to replace the hall effect sensor. (Ford calls it the PIP sensor - Profile Ignition Pickup) Edit - if the car has ever done a head gasket - coolant out the exhaust, then the O2 sensor can get contaminated. Dave's suggestions are a good start, but other things to check, is the cat falling apart or one of the mufflers may have a loose baffle? When you put the new thermostat in did you test it first? I have had a few that are 10 or more degrees out of their operating range right out of the box, if it's not running warm enough it will stay in cold start mode and just dump fuel in (but they usually still perform ok) Well an update on this.... The TFI was getting worse, as you could wiggle it from the plug end and the engine would cut out. I ordered one and it couldn't have come sooner. The car cut out 3 times trying to leave for work, actually coasting down the hill and pulling into my driveway (just) on the last occasion. So I missed a day of work and ended up walking to the post office to collect the new one.They are a pain to fit. Required removing the front 2 bolts of the AC compressor and swiveling it downwards to access the screws that hold it to the dizzy. The old one was toast, I basically pulled the backing plate off with my fingers, the sealant had perished and the heat sink compound had dried up. There's a little IC on the inside of the plate that had 2 solder joints that may have already been broken. Maybe that was the problem all along.Anyways, the new one went back in nicely. The heat sink compound they gave me wasn't white like the others I've seen. It was clear like silicone sealer.Set timing with the diagnostic plug grounded. Reset base idle too.Economy still wasn't great, so it wasn't the TFI causing this.I happened to have a MAP sensor given to me by a workmate, so I plugged that in and noticed a slight improvement (in the 17s around town) but still not where it should be.Now, for the biggest difference... The Italian tuneup! Took it for a decent drive, got it warm, then popped it back to 2nd for some 40-100 runs at WOT. Reset the trip computer, and drove normally, instant improvement from before. I'm now in the 10s on country runs, 13s around town. Seems like the computer needed to do some learning before any real changes could happen.I'm reasonably happy with it now, part-throttle is smooth and effortless, goes pretty well for a heavy auto wagon.Only niggle now is an occasional stumble while idling at the lights. Feels like it's going to stall.I wouldn't have thought the MAP would be the faulty one, but changing it made a huge difference, especially after some "tuning".Still might do the TPS though. They're not expensive. Sent from my CPH1607 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkZE 0 Posted March 18, 2019 Was there an AU engine that had the smaller main journals (E series mains) but the cross bolted main caps and dizzy shaft driven oil pump? Or to put it another way is there and AU bottom end that would directly accept an EF fully counterweighted crank and cross bolt to the alloy sump? Mark Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thom 6,650 Posted March 18, 2019 Was there an AU engine that had the smaller main journals (E series mains) but the cross bolted main caps and dizzy shaft driven oil pump? Or to put it another way is there and AU bottom end that would directly accept an EF fully counterweighted crank and cross bolt to the alloy sump? Markshort answer no, in late el Ford swapped to the larger main journals and ran the same bearings up to fgx, all au's still drove the oil pump off a stub shaft, they just had a little shaft to replace the dizzy as the cam position sensor was in the timing cover, all au engines can be retrofitted with a dizzy, they didn't change to the crank driven unit until ba 2 MarkZE and gerg reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rattle can 2 Posted July 24, 2019 Hi have recently been graced with the presence of a 1993 XG Xr6 my first 4.0lohc falcon . its a good runner and surprisingly pokey but have instantly got the bug back for more power. Im thinking of building another engine for it (gotta be cheap the wife doesn’t know) so what I have got the gist of so far is . Au gas short block Ef xr6 head Keep XG cam Keep Log manifold ? Or Bbm if there’s not much in it I don’t wanna waste my time with the wiring. is there anything else? also is there mods you need to do to sump to get Au block in XG if so could anyone elaborate? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deankxf 20,286 Posted July 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, Rattle can said: also is there mods you need to do to sump to get Au block in XG if so could anyone elaborate? depends on your budget, you can now buy a sway bar from tuff mounts ($325? ) that lets a barra fit in, and AU engine... otherwise i think you need to cut the sump on an angle.. might be a photo somewhere, but i haven't seen one since photobucket ruined them all Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rattle can 2 Posted July 24, 2019 Id probably rather do the chopping if I can whole car only cost $1250 2 Outback Jack and deankxf reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outback Jack 6,352 Posted September 27, 2020 Hey@Thom, I am giving the Outback a bit of a Birthday and wanted your input please mate.My motor is stock bottom end.Head is 94AB with stock beehive springs and has 3 angle valve seat cut.Shaved 60 thou.Cam is Crow 222825. .489 lift.(stage 1).MLS-R 1.3mm head gasket.3" intake and K&N pod filter.Log manifold.Extractors into hi flow 2 1/2" exhaust.Will be running iPR adjustable fuel reg.Mantic ER2 Stage 1 clutch.Manual 5spd with 3.45 hydratrak.Running a stock 3DAC ecu.Locked timing at 36 degrees BTDC.I have an EL Xr6 6TAC ecu coming for her, should suit my set up.I know I have to change base timing to 0 BTDC if I want to run ECU spark control, so that's cool.I was wondering on two things, running the EL ecu with a Log manifold instead of BBM , what to expect....And also the correct fuel pressure at idle to suit the EL XR6 tune.....Thanks mate, Outback Jack.Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thom 6,650 Posted September 27, 2020 The tune will be fine without a bbm hooked up and below 3800rpm it should be the same as a non bbm tune, having an el ecu will let you fit a knock sensor if you desire to. As far as I remember (granted it was 10 years ago last time I played with fuel pressure) a base 4.0 tune has a 45psi fuel pressure reg and an xr6 has a 55psi fuel pressure reg set at idle with the vacuum source disconnected 1 Outback Jack reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thom 6,650 Posted September 27, 2020 Hey[mention=43]Thom[/mention], I am giving the Outback a bit of a Birthday and wanted your input please mate.My motor is stock bottom end.Head is 94AB with stock beehive springs and has 3 angle valve seat cut.Shaved 60 thou.Cam is Crow 222825. .489 lift.(stage 1).MLS-R 1.3mm head gasket.3" intake and K&N pod filter.Log manifold.Extractors into hi flow 2 1/2" exhaust.Will be running iPR adjustable fuel reg.Mantic ER2 Stage 1 clutch.Manual 5spd with 3.45 hydratrak.Running a stock 3DAC ecu.Locked timing at 36 degrees BTDC.I have an EL Xr6 6TAC ecu coming for her, should suit my set up.I know I have to change base timing to 0 BTDC if I want to run ECU spark control, so that's cool.I was wondering on two things, running the EL ecu with a Log manifold instead of BBM , what to expect....And also the correct fuel pressure at idle to suit the EL XR6 tune.....Thanks mate, Outback Jack.Sent from my S21 using TapatalkI actually ran a bbm on an xh log ecu for a long time before I started playing with j3 chips and it ran really well 1 Outback Jack reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outback Jack 6,352 Posted September 27, 2020 The tune will be fine without a bbm hooked up and below 3800rpm it should be the same as a non bbm tune, having an el ecu will let you fit a knock sensor if you desire to. As far as I remember (granted it was 10 years ago last time I played with fuel pressure) a base 4.0 tune has a 45psi fuel pressure reg and an xr6 has a 55psi fuel pressure reg set at idle with the vacuum source disconnected Thanks Thom, your a legend. Can't wait to see how she goes with EL XR6 ecu.I didn't realise you had to disconnect the vaccum to set the idle rate on an adjustable fuel reg. My bad.Last time I did it on my stock 4L I think I set it at 29psi, (200kpa) but had vaccum hose connected at idle.....Doh!Do I just block off the vac tube whilst setting the reg? Thanks for your help mate.Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thom 6,650 Posted September 27, 2020 Thanks Thom, your a legend. Can't wait to see how she goes with EL XR6 ecu.I didn't realise you had to disconnect the vaccum to set the idle rate on an adjustable fuel reg. My bad.Last time I did it on my stock 4L I think I set it at 29psi, (200kpa) but had vaccum hose connected at idle.....Doh!Do I just block off the vac tube whilst setting the reg? Thanks for your help mate.Sent from my S21 using TapatalkBlocking it off will be fine 1 Outback Jack reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outback Jack 6,352 Posted September 27, 2020 Thank you Sir, As always you are a wealth of 4L knowledge.I may play with j3 chip tuning later, but for now I think the EL Xr6 tune should suit my needs.Maybe Santa will bring me a j3 tuning package for Christmas....ho ho ho.... Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk 1 Thom reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outback Jack 6,352 Posted September 27, 2020 Thom, I was also running a 3" elbow, 3" stainless pipe and a K&N pod filter tucked behind the passenger headlight,which at the time seemed like a good idea.I realise now all I am doing is sucking hot air from the engine bay.Also have the feeling I have lost a lot of intake velocity by using it.The Outback runs a cyclonic barrel type air cleaner in an enclosure that has a scoop at the front of the bonnet to drag cool air in.I was going to make a modified pipe to fit inside this enclosure to run the K&N pod filter, so it drew cold air from outside, looked stock and had good flow.I am still going to use the Original Outback air filter enclosure but have taken the plastic cover off the standard air filter as it covers 1/2 the surface area of it.The pod filter has half the surface area of the now modified standard filter.K&N Pod filter height- 13cm. Average outside diameter- 45cm. 585cm surface area.Outback Ryco filter height- 28cm. Averageoutside diameter- 43cm.1204cm surface area.So I think with paper being more restrictive than the pod filter, the ryco will still perform as well, if not better with better protection from dust particles.Time to fit it all up.....Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk 1 Thom reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CHESTNUTXE 7,308 Posted October 27, 2020 im so bored at home thinking of going down the wreckers and grabbing a barra or AU motor really cheap and fking around with it,as there is heaps of them just lying in the shed,but which one do i grab the green cover ones or normal ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
351XD_Fairmont 604 Posted October 27, 2020 Grab an au gas engine and have a tinker around with it, would be good to see someone document a build up of an old intech engine 1 CHESTNUTXE reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CHESTNUTXE 7,308 Posted October 27, 2020 Grab an au gas engine and have a tinker around with it, would be good to see someone document a build up of an old intech engineHere is the green auSent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CHESTNUTXE 7,308 Posted October 27, 2020 Here is the green auSent from my SM-G570Y using TapatalkSo whats the go with the green au engine does it have better rods or high comp ? And can it fit a dizzy ?Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thom 6,650 Posted October 28, 2020 Au gas had the same rods as other au engines, same comp ratio, a dizzy will fit straight in 1 CHESTNUTXE reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites